Open Forum: Thoughts on the Final Debate

by In the news Wednesday, October 15. 2008

koin kennedy.serendipityThumb Open Forum: Thoughts on the Final Debate
KOIN-TV 6 has hosted another bloggers convention, this time at the Kennedy School.

You should be there. If not, give your comments and re-cap here. This is the final debate so the stakes are higher than ever. Give us your thoughts.

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Posted by In the news at 06:12 | Posted in Measure 37 | 52 Comments |

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Alan

You simply have to predict no change from the previous debate. Both candidates know that to be forceful is unpresidential.
CRAWDUDE

Senator, if you wanted to run against President Bush, you should have ran 4 years ago, lol, lol! Obama looked like he just ate a mouth full of his old cigarette butts after that comment, lol!
CRAWDUDE

McCain just nailed him on the nuclear energy and energy issues. He seems to have picked it up a bit, I think McCain may be winning thus far, we’ll see in the polls in a couple days.
Tiffany

I love that McC pointed out BOb’s “eloquence” and how he uses words to lead us to think one thing when he means another. BOb is very eloquent and knows how to use words to comfort the masses.

provo nova

I only know Bob from watching a you tube video. I just wonder if the public gets what he is talking about.

Tiffany

…Hatchet, scalpel, earmarks, porkbarrel…come on guys, let’s do something new.
Tiffany

Joe the Plumber is now famous AND rich.

Alan

The plumber is now an unexpected celebrity

Tiffany

BOb is using his eloquence to pretty much mislead people on the abortion and no life support for infants born as a result of a botched abortion.
CRAWDUDE

Their healthcare plans are both non-starters , boring!!!!!! Its like talking about the Oregon ” Pay for performance ” for teachers, yawn!!!!
Tiffany

Oh good. JMc agrees with me:)
CRAWDUDE

Federal control of schools, Obama just got scary!
Tiffany

Yeah, that’s JUST what we need!
Tiffany

Sorry, but I wish McC wouldn’t refer to Sarah Palin like she knows alot or has alot of experience with all forms of handicaps for kids. Her NEWBORN has Downs, that does not qualify her to speak for autism or any other handicap, including Downs, since her baby is just a few months old. I love SP, but let’s not pander.
Tiffany

BOb had to think twice about using the word “promise”.
CRAWDUDE

I think McCain won this one!
Tiffany

Even ABC (George Steph) says McC “set the agenda”.

Alan

albiet at the thrid debate. Wee late.

CRAWDUDE

Back to our currently schedule demise : Asian markets are plunging, our will be tanking in the morning.

The money to buy the toxic mortgages is instead being pumped into various banks so they can continue making profits…….the citizens were taken once again.
Tiffany

What? So? They are just trying to “spread the wealth”.

Steve Buckstein

What McCain failed to explain is that “sharing the wealth” is usually a prescription for “reducing the wealth.” He should have made it clear that taking more money from Joe the Plumber would reduce Joe’s incentive to create that wealth in the first place.

Tiffany

I am just glad to have watched at least one debate at home instead of at KOIN’s LibFest.
John in Oregon

WTF. I cant believe McCain just whiffed this one.

When talking about his opposition to the Illinois Born Alive Infants Protection Act Obama just said his opposition was to the lack of a clause which expressly stated the law would be severed from Roe V Wade.

At that point all McCain had to do was read the following:

Illinois health and human services committee minutes
Senate Bill 1082
3/12/03

Vote to amend bill to adopt severance from Roe V Wade.
Obama Yes
Severance amendment adopted by unanimous vote.

Vote to pass bill out of committee
Obama No

McCain need have said nothing more.

Its never good to LIE on national TV. Not even for Obama.
Tiffany

Unfortunately, many media outlets are not interested in truth or lies but in getting their guy elected.It’s gonna have to be more organic than that. It’s gonna have to be the YouTubers, the Bloggers and the email forwards that plant doubt about BOb. And, unless something big comes up in the next few days, “their guy” will be in.

McC has not been able to do it for some reason.

dean

The some reason, or reasons are that McCain is coming across as old and cranky and absent any ideas for running the nation different than the current occupant, who has a popularity problem. I mean, when his campaign comes down to trying to hang a 60s radical around Obama’s neck, that sums up the desperate situation he is in.

Anonymous

Abbie Hoffman was a “60s radcal”. Bill Ayers is a MFing unrepentant MURDERER directly responsible for at least seven deaths and Obama has buddied around with him for 15 years.

dean

I don’t hold old against him. As long as he has his faculties its more a virtue than a problem. Its the “Old and cranky” part that isn’t working for him. He may not be coming across as cranky to you, but he does to me, and apparently did to the majority of viewers in the debates. Neither liberalism nor conservatism can be sold to the American people by grumping them into it.

Apparently Obama is not telling you what you want to hear, so he may not be guilty of that.

Tiffany

Hey, if different means that my husband and I have to give our money, hard-earned over a number of years, to causes we don’t believe in, to people who sit on their lazy butts or stand at Costco with a beggars sign when they clearly are getting plenty to eat — and paying for healthcare for people who are here illegally and for procedures we disagree with, then I don’t know that just being “different” is good enough. If I had plastic surgery and look “different” but am still ugly — or look worse, or have health complications — then different isn’t good enough. I’d hope Americans are alot smarter than that!

And McC doesn’t appear “cranky” IMO, he appears serious rather than like he is trying to win a rock star contest.Times are serious so this is most appropriate.

But he is old. At least we can agree on that. However, I have gleaned alot of value from the old folks in my life. If I needed advice, I’d probably ask one of them over a charismatic “Tell-Me-What-I-Want-To-Hear-As-You-Speak-Out-Of-Both-Sides-Of-Your-Mouth” socialist younger man.
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When I watched the third debate I had several thoughts but wanted to let them settle to the fullness of time. First Bob Schieffer did a much better job than I had expected. He let McCain and Obama run, he didnâ€™t interrupt to move the debate in a “desired direction”. It proves there are still some “news” people in the legacy media.

I saw McCain set Obama back on his heals a number of times. Obama with a blank stare, no where to go, forced to change the subject. That he did so smoothly is a credit to Obama’s performance.

But what I noticed most, in those moments and others, McCain did not close. Did not connect the dots and close the deal.

At the very beginning McCain mentioned Fannie and Freddie then went no further. Did not try to connect the dots. He did not break out of the mime that “Wall Street” is the bad guy and government intervention the good guy on the economy.

Sure there was fraudulent investment behavior such as the Herb and Marion Sandler’s sale of Golden West Financial to Wacovia. The sale that broke Wacovia when Golden West collapsed. But make no mistake, when Obama attacks Wall Street he is attacking capitalism.

The point is McCain did not close.

—–
I mentioned this one earlier.

Justifying his opposition to the Illinois Born Alive Infants Protection Act Obama said his opposition was to the lack of a clause which expressly stated the law would be severed from Roe V Wade.

At this point the issue isnt that Obama supports putting the baby which survives an induced labor abortion in the medical waste closet. Closing the door to muffle the baby crying.

The issue is that knowing that even those that support abortion do not want the medical waste closet option. Obaman lied about his position.

The record shows that Obama voted to add severability and then voted and killed the bill. Obama lied and McCain didnâ€™t close.

—–
The issue of ACORN voter registration fraud came up. Obama said thatâ€™s just a distraction, a few workers lazy and cheated. He dismissed it as no big deal.

McCain could have said, 6000 in Los Vagus Democrat Secretary of State and Attorney General raid the offices. 20,000 in Philadelphia, Mississippi, Washington, as many as 200,000 in Ohio, the Voter Fraud House, the FBI investigating ACORN all across the country. This is a systemic problem Senator Obama its not a few lazy employees, and McCain did not close.

—–
Obama said Ayers did something when Obama was 8 years old, just a distraction.

McCain started well “I donâ€™t care about one old washed up terrorist. And he did not close. Senator Obama the issue is not one old tourist. The issue is Tony Rezko, Reverend Jeremiah Wright, William Ayers, Frank Marshall Davis, Rashid Khalidi, Father Michael Pfleger, ACORN, Louis Farrakhan, The New Party, Mike Klonsky. The issue is the pattern of associations and McCain did not close.

—–
During the debate Obama repeated the discredited claim that someone at a McCain rally said kill him.

Both McCain and Obama knew the Secret Service take threats against Presidents and Candidate seriously. Secret Service agents in every crowd are honed for any suspicious behavior, for words like kill, gun. After the false “kill him” claim, agents interviewed several hundred attendees. The Secret Service concluded the report was unfounded and reported this to Obama. Unfounded is a polite way to saying the reporters claim was false.

McCain mentioned “the T-shirt”. McCain should have said Senator Obama, kill him is a lie. He should have said that several hundred “Sarah Palin is a Cunt” T-shirts appear at every Obama rally. Better yet, McCain should have held one up. McCain did not close. Forgive the crude language, but sometimes the ugly truth is just ugly.

—–
During the debate Obama said that his only tie to ACORN was representing them along with the U.S. Justice Department, in a lawsuit demanding the Illinois state government enforce the new Motor Voter law. ACORN is just a distraction.

McCain could have asked Obama if he stood by the statement on his web site that he, Obama, never provided training to ACORN. Obama would have had 3 choices.

*O* Admit he provided training to ACORN.
*O* Hedge and say he was not paid to provide training to ACORN.
*O* Lie and say he never provided training to ACORN.

Then McCain only needed to produce the article and research from the Toledo Blade showing Obama did provide training. He would have shown Obama was lying about ACORN but McCain did not close.

The point I am addressing here is not the lies that Obama told. I am asking why McCain let many of them go by unchallenged. And this really is an important question.

The debates represent the only unfiltered and unedited contact between McCain and the people. The only time the media cant edit and change what McCain said. So why did McCain hold back?

I’m sure that Dean’s answer would be that McCain is a doddering old guy who cant remember what day it is. And I am sure I have some information at my fingertips that McCain might not have. However on the campaign trail McCain has said many of the things I mentioned above.

The legacy media has made a great deal of the “rage” of McCainites. They posted the clip of the man who spoke back to McCain, “go getem”. One thing was clear from the first time I saw the clip. Yes the man was upset. Most of all he was upset at McCain for not going after the lies of the opposition.

I was happy to see McCain draw the bright line, not going after personal attacks. Not to go after a man because his ears are big, he smokes and etc.

Which brings me full circle to my original question. Why did McCain choose not to close?

dean

John…Dean wouldn’t say McCain is “a doddering old guy who cant remember what day it is” because Dean doesn’t believe that. McCain is a grumpy old guy, but not doddering. Dean would say every issue you raised amounts to a hill of mixed bean salad. Who cares about any of it? What does any of it have to do with tax policy, foreign policy, economic policy, energy policy, health policy, and every other major issue that the people of this nation care deeply about? Barak Obama is not Ayers, Wright, Rezko, or any of the other cast of characters. He has a record, has proposals, and has supporters like Colin Powell and Warren Buffett who are not interested in helping a terorist socialist get into the White House.

McCain’s core problem is he has no positive agenda, and he is yoked to a failed president, failed party, and failed ideology that has nothing to offer but character attacks.

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Emily piece started things off, sending models down the leaf-strewn runway wearing luminously colored treates with unfit patterning and chopped-up swingy skirts, with the prettiest done in turquoise and exciting blue. Next up was M the position, schemer Simplicio Michael Luis’ likable edging of menswear constructed of soybean, bamboo, and charcoal materials. He manifested wholly-cut jeans, jackets, and shirts, paired with insane chopped-wanting ties.

Sandy Skinner’s EcoSkin assemblage featured tundra, -carat-hued structural cotton jersey accouteres, the oft-repeated look of the week. Her “Primrose” equip, a descriptive patterned, sailing–necked minitreat was charming, but less so the end zoologicals she subjected to the catwalk in the christen of uncultured rights. The wolf, python, and rascal she sent out seemed afraid of the fair lights, immense mob, and fortissimo music.

The unchangeable LA style Week tundra concluded with two fun trues. Lilikoi, Barbara Bosgrandly’s righteous and sustainable trade name, featured velvety cotton treates in dulcet colors, with silk-screened designs creating a much more compelling look to the central jersey. And the most fun of all came from Kathleen trencher, the maker of SmartGlass Recycled Jewelry. She manners necklaces, earrings, belts, and bracelets from recycled drinking- bottles, creating discoid motifs in varying sizes. Her jewelry graced all of the female models everywhere the evening, then as a unchangeablee to the program she sent out three models wearing unblemished bathing suits overlaid with swingy treates made of her drinking- circles.
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Los Angeles â€“ It was a common ending to a up to there week of create put ons at Smashbox Studios in Culver municipality, as the Mercedes-Benz Los Angeles mould Week closed out on Thursday tenebrousness with the unversed snap “Humanitarian make Show.” A consortium of eco-congenial architects put together by activist Mikey Koffman of The Gallery Los Angeles, the manifest consisted of five segments, with each architect manifesting a matter-of-fact store.

Emily go-between started things off, sending models down the leaf-strewn runway wearing fairly colored accouteres with unfit patterning and chopped-up swingy skirts, with the prettiest done in turquoise and energized blue. Next up was M the position, schemer Simplicio Michael Luis’ likable true of menswear constructed of soybean, bamboo, and charcoal materials. He put oned grandly-cut jeans, jackets, and shirts, paired with clot chopped-cut in on ties.

Sandy Skinner’s EcoSkin assemblage featured tundra, potent-hued integrated cotton jersey accouteres, the oft-repeated look of the week. Her “Primrose” treat, a unmistakeable patterned, sailing–necked miniequip was charming, but less so the palpable organisms she subjected to the catwalk in the christen of zoological rights. The wolf, python, and interfere with she sent out seemed shocked of the luminous lights, immense group, and extravagant music.

The concluding LA style Week put on concluded with two fun unders. Lilikoi, Barbara Boswholly’s right and sustainable tag, featured velvety cotton equipes in dulcet colors, with silk-screened designs creating a much more inviting look to the prime jersey. And the most fun of all came from Kathleen lamination, the maker of SmartGlass Recycled Jewelry. She manners necklaces, earrings, belts, and bracelets from recycled drinking- bottles, creating twisting motifs in varying sizes. Her jewelry graced all of the female models all the way through the evening, then as a concludinge to the program she sent out three models wearing ghostly bathing suits overlaid with swingy treates made of her drinking- circles.
Tupakovich

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Los Angeles â€“ It was a common ending to a overloaded week of create forthrights at Smashbox Studios in Culver municipality, as the Mercedes-Benz Los Angeles make Week closed out on Thursday tenebrousness with the wet behind the ears snap “Humanitarian make Show.” A consortium of eco-neighbourly schemers put together by activist Mikey Koffman of The Gallery Los Angeles, the manifest consisted of five segments, with each architect tundraing a insufficient assemblage.

Emily cause started things off, sending models down the leaf-strewn runway wearing trade mark Day-Gloly colored equipes with unfit patterning and chopped-up swingy skirts, with the prettiest done in turquoise and exciting blue. Next up was M the decunder, schemer Simplicio Michael Luis’ likable under of menswear constructed of soybean, bamboo, and charcoal materials. He manifested proficiently-cut jeans, jackets, and shirts, paired with insane chopped-cut in on ties.

Sandy Skinner’s EcoSkin assemblage featured forthright, -carat-hued structural cotton jersey treates, the oft-repeated look of the week. Her “Primrose” equip, a unmistakeable patterned, skiff-necked miniequip was charming, but less so the end zoologicals she subjected to the catwalk in the distinction of zoological rights. The wolf, python, and rascal she sent out seemed afraid of the fair lights, elephantine mob, and fortissimo music.

The ending LA mould Week put on concluded with two fun trues. Lilikoi, Barbara Bosproficiently’s right and sustainable mark, featured velvety cotton accouteres in dulcet colors, with silk-screened designs creating a much more inviting look to the prime jersey. And the most fun of all came from Kathleen trencher, the maker of SmartGlass Recycled Jewelry. She manners necklaces, earrings, belts, and bracelets from recycled drinking- bottles, creating twisting motifs in varying sizes. Her jewelry graced all of the female models all the way through the evening, then as a concludinge to the program she sent out three models wearing light-skinned bathing suits overlaid with swingy equipes made of her trifocals circles.
Tupakovich

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* 4 Minutes With Vickie: St. Louis style Week toy with Video Video: 4 Minutes With Vickie: St. Louis mould Week KMOV narrows 4 St. Louis
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Los Angeles â€“ It was a common ending to a filled week of create manifests at Smashbox Studios in Culver urban district, as the Mercedes-Benz Los Angeles style Week closed out on Thursday tenebrousness with the wet behind the ears snap “Humanitarian mould Show.” A consortium of eco-neighbourly architects put together by activist Mikey Koffman of The Gallery Los Angeles, the put on consisted of five segments, with each schemer manifesting a paltry store.

Emily cause started things off, sending models down the leaf-strewn runway wearing fairly colored treates with unfit patterning and chopped-up swingy skirts, with the prettiest done in turquoise and exciting blue. Next up was M the decedging, schemer Simplicio Michael Luis’ likable edging of menswear constructed of soybean, bamboo, and charcoal materials. He manifested proficiently-cut jeans, jackets, and shirts, paired with giddy chopped-wanting ties.

Sandy Skinner’s EcoSkin store featured tundra, dynamic-hued biotic cotton jersey accouteres, the oft-repeated look of the week. Her “Primrose” accouter, a descriptive patterned, sailing–necked miniequip was charming, but less so the end zoologicals she subjected to the catwalk in the designate of zoological rights. The wolf, python, and rascal she sent out seemed frightened of the luminous lights, elephantine mob, and fortissimo music.

The concluding LA mould Week put on concluded with two fun unders. Lilikoi, Barbara Bosgrandly’s right and sustainable tag, featured velvety cotton treates in euphonious colors, with silk-screened designs creating a much more inviting look to the prime jersey. And the most fun of all came from Kathleen lamination, the maker of SmartGlass Recycled Jewelry. She creates necklaces, earrings, belts, and bracelets from recycled drinking- bottles, creating discoid motifs in varying sizes. Her jewelry graced all of the female models all the way through the evening, then as a endinge to the program she sent out three models wearing ghostly bathing suits overlaid with swingy equipes made of her trifocals circles.
Tupakovich

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