Rep. Greg Walden: President rejected our offer

Rep Greg Walden_thb

by Rep. Greg Walden

In your family or your job, when you have a disagreement, how to you handle it? You sit down and talk, and find a solution that works for both sides.

On Thursday, I joined other leaders in the House in meeting with the President and the Vice President in the Roosevelt Room at the White House for about 90 minutes. It was a frank, useful, and candid conversation, and I wish it had happened weeks ago. We presented the President with a proposal that we felt met him half way, including a plan to address the debt ceiling and reopen the government. But it also included a call for serious, fruitful negotiations to reduce the deficit and America’s ever-growing national debt.

After the meeting, my colleague Jeb Hensarling and I talked to Sean Hannity about what took place.

I also talked to the Bulletin about the meeting, which you can read here.

We must do this. We must reduce spending and get Washington spending under control. We’ve made progress in the past few years. Because of our efforts in the House, federal spending has gone down for two years in a row for the first time since the Korean War. The Budget Control Act from 2011—which came out of budget negotiations with the President and Senate—was the largest spending reduction bill of the last 25 years, resulting in $630 billion in savings over five years and not a dime in tax increases. We’ve made some progress, but there is still much work to be done.

Unfortunately, within 24 hours of meeting with us, the President basically rejected our offer and moved on to talk with Senate Republicans, before their proposal was rejected, too. As I write this, the focus has shifted to Majority Leader Harry Reid and Republican Leader Mitch McConnell to see if they can find common ground that can pass both houses of Congress and get approval from the President.

As you might imagine, people I’m hearing from are expressing strong feelings about the situation…strong on both sides. Stay tuned.

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Posted by at 05:00 | Posted in Congress, Federal Budget, President Obama | 204 Comments |Email This Post Email This Post |Print This Post Print This Post
  • chana cox

    For the president everything is a finite resource — except money. There seems to be no understanding at all, that printing money is borrowing money from someone. In this case it is more like stealing money from our children.

    Fortunately at the state and town level there is some limited understanding that money is a finite resource. We are being burdened with higher and higher costs of servicing our debts.

  • Bob Clark

    The Congressional Budget Office says the outstanding federal treasury debt should decline as a percentage of the Nation’s income over the next several years, but then start steadily growing in the next two decades. This surge in relative federal debt stems from entitlements including the Affordable Care Act subsidies. The House GOP should find the President’s past words about the nation’s ability to afford the ACA, and then, offer a bill which would shore up the ACA and Administration’s looseness in funding subsidies without means testing and over generous pay to the ACA’s new health guide personnel hires.

    The House GOP makes a big mistake when it comes out and tries to defund the ACA completely; and it only having leverage over one-third of the legislative/executive branches of government. Then, too, the House GOP goes after one of the few legacy events President Obama can claim as his.

    I think the longer term future offers hope for the GOP but right now the GOP is experiencing difficulties in assimilating the tea party movements and libertarian movements. I sure hope this evolution gets smoother and the GOP can keep control of the U.S House in the November 2014 elections. We saw what happens when one party has control of all legislative and executive branches, and it isn’t pretty for the federal finances. Bush 2 handed out Medicare part B entitlements, and Obama handed out Medicaid subsidies with the ACA helping to diminish the work ethic (which we will need a lot of what with the demographics shrinking the number of workers supporting each retiree).

    • DavidAppell

      This surge in relative federal debt stems from entitlements including the Affordable Care Act subsidies.

      No, that is not what the CBO said — they did not solely blame the ACA. They recently wrote:

      “However, budget deficits would gradually rise again under current law, CBO projects, mainly because of increasing interest costs and growing spending for Social Security and the government’s major health care programs (Medicare, Medicaid, the Children’s Health Insurance Program, and subsidies to be provided through health insurance exchanges).”

    • DavidAppell

      And actually, the CBO and JCT estimate the ACA will *reduce* deficits:

      “That legislation [the ACA] includes many other provisions that, on net, will reduce budget deficits. Taking the coverage provisions and other provisions together, CBO and JCT have estimated that the ACA will reduce deficits over the next 10 years and in the subsequent decade.”

      • DavidAppell

        Here is the CBO’s last estimate: repealing the ACA “would cause a net increase in federal budget deficits of $109 billion over the 2013–2022 period.”
        — CBO, 7/24/12

  • Ballistic45

    Liberals have an addiction for other peoples money.. Like All Addicts, no amount of reasoning will deter them from their addiction.. Like All addicts, they will call names of those trying get a handle on the problem, they will become violent if kept from their addiction long enough… They like all addicts will make up every excuse under the sun to justify their need…. The House of Representatives need to stand their ground and let the Addicts go Cold Turkey… Yes it will hurt the innocent, like all addicts hurt their families who try to help.. But we cannot go on down this path. The kicking of the can down the road does nothing but let the problem go even bigger….

    • 3H

      LOL.. does your fondness for violence against liberals make you an addict? Or did you realize that calling for violence against people you consider communists or socialists was simply wrong headed?

      • Ballistic45

        Check Twitter, Facebook, the streets of our cities during liberal demonstrations, read history, then try to sell your BS about liberal civility when opposed…

        • 3H

          Nothing but evasion Ballistic. Your own words condemn your comment as hypocritical.

          LOL.. and flaming on Facebook and Twitter are not violence (I do note that you changed your tune from “violence” to “civility”) , and if you think it’s only liberals who exhibit boorish behavior, well, I’ve got some prime swampland in Florida to send. That kind of behavior is a personal failing, not a political one.

          I would suggest that you read more broadly. Evidently you’re content to read books that only support what you already believe.

          So, and back to my original point, why is it OK when you advocate for violence against the left? Or do your rules only apply to the other side?

          • Ballistic45

            I notice you and David work as a tag team, David has admitted his political affiliation, why not you? See, I’m not politically Correct at all and I don’t intend to be, if you walk, talk, smell, shit and eat like a God Damn Communist, that’s what you friggin are in my book… No amount of BS can paint your agenda any other way… So if that offends you then tough, See, the Constitution that keeps gettin in your way doesn’t give you any rights of NOT being offended.. And what you call personal Failing is what I call patriotism.. And we all know how you Communist feel about Patriots don’t we? Just the mere mention of anyone opposing your agenda of destruction causes you all to foam at the mouth, start pounding your chest, and draggin your knuckles in the dirt… And the funny thing is, every time one of you lame brain liberals get a microphone in hand for any length of time you prove my point…. Liberalism is a Mental Disorder…

          • 3H

            If you don’t care about political correctness, then why do you whine like a spoiled 2 year old about liberal incivility? It’s not just your “political correctness” I have an issue with, it’s your rampant hypocrisy.

            LOL.. I have never complained about being offended by you. You’re not that important. But thanks for the straw-man comment.

            I just like pointing out your glaring double standards. I have bad news for you. I have a much better appreciation of the First Amendment than you do, or ever will have. I actually believe that everyone has a right to speak their minds without being intimidated by violence; a view you obviously don’t hold.

            Let me be clear since you keep avoiding the issue because, at the heart of it, you’re intellectually a bully and a coward: nothing in the Constitution allows for you, or people who agree with you, to physically attack socialists, or communists, or anyone else you disagree with. Their speech is protected too. Do you understand that?

            As for my political affiliation… isn’t it obvious from my statements? Perhaps you require a label so you can stuff me into some strange typology where you can pretend all sorts of things about what I believe. Too bad. Attach any label you want to me, it will be as meaningless as the rest of your blathering.

          • Ballistic45

            In the period of Obama’s rein. I can show you un-prosecuted violence and intimidation by liberals like you from ACORN, the New Black Panthers, Union Goons against Conservatives who have been called every name in the book by Liberals for expressing their opposition… The Liberal News even has to report it when it is so rampant.. The last being a Democrat who advocated Marshall Law to control Congress and the people as a means of ending the Government shut down.. And the list of violent and unconstitutional answers flow from liberal lips without end… Yes the Constitution does allow me and other citizens to fight against Domestic Enemies… And so far the NEW Democrat Party is proving to be just that… That’s why Democrats fear returning GI’s, Tea Party, Constitution Party, Libertarian Party members and vilify them.. Obama cannot even salute a soldier for his Medal of Honor service as all Presidents have done when presenting the medal… A liberal Democrat ask “What does it matter” when asked about Benghazi. Maxine Walters Freudian slip of Liberal intentions of industry takeover.. Simple liberal bloggers who say things like,

            JAIL THE CONSERVATIVES … I’m thinking we should use the Patriot Act to destroy the conservative movement.

            In short, the liberal agenda and actions of destruction of America’s security, energy independence, attempts and successes of diminishing Citizens rights, destruction of our health care in order to bring all citizens most private information under Central Government control under a new health care law that is unsustainable and deals more with Government powers over citizens than it does with real fixes to Health care, the many scandals of Government abuse against citizens rights to privacy; right to bear arms; to gather in view of the President for redress of grievances without being arrested, all betray the liberal intentions of destroying America from within makes them a Domestic Terrorist and enemy, it is not those who oppose such an agenda as is being portrayed by the those in power and lemmings that follow.. A book could be written on what the liberals have done to destroy America from within starting in our public schools and Colleges where Conservative students and teachers are silenced… Even the very basic Right of Religion is being attacked by the left on so many levels.. It is Obvious this Liberal 5th column is following several Marxist plans but the one encapsulating it best is; ” America is like a healthy body and its resistance is threefold: its patriotism, its morality and its spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within. – (Joseph Stalin) You cannot deny that the Liberal movement is not attacking every one of those elements outlined by Stalin…. OOoops Can’t blame that on Bush, or anyone else……

      • .

        You’re sick and you bestow it 3H. Argh!

    • DavidAppell

      Isn’t it odd how Republicans never try to “get a handle” on the debt problem when THEY’RE in office?? Bush spent freely AND cut taxes, twice.
      The only time Republicans complain about the debt is when they’re out of power, when they use it as a tool to fool their voters into putting them back in power, when they never cut the debt (or undertake any of the social policy changes they advocate).
      How many times can their voters be fooled by all this? How many times do Democratic Presidents have to inherit a large deficit, succeed in cutting it down to size, only to have Republicans rail against the very debt they created?

      • Ballistic45

        Tell me one President who came to power with no experience who as a “Community Organizer” trained ACORN how to intimidate banks into making unwise loans to people who didn’t have a chance to pay, then as a Senator Obama worked with Sen Dodd and Barny Frank to divert any Congressional calls for increased oversight of Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac.. Which garnered Obama with the second highest PAC monies right behind Sen. Dodd paid by both Freddie Mac and Fanny Mae.. So we have a President who helped cause the housing bubble, then oppose any calls to checkout the direction the housing market was headed in.. Then when the Socialist affordable housing bubble blew up in their faces, the finger pointing began toward the Executive branch… Funny thing is, it is a part of Congressional Record that both Pres. Bush and Sen. McCain tried to warn of the coming housing crash and the dyer consequences that it would cause… Barney Frank kept assuring everyone right up to the crash that everything was OK… Sell your BS to someone who does not think or read history….

        • DavidAppell

          You’re ranting (yet) again.

          Your whole political philosophy doesn’t seem based on any philosophy or principles, just animus to whatever people and groups Fox News tells you think, even as they misinform their viewers time and time again.

          It’s a semi-free country, but all that anger can’t be good for anyone. And, as you just saw in DC, it is a (badly) losing position.

          • Ballistic45

            I’m not going to shut up and give up to the Socialist Agenda, and a growing number of Americans including Democrats are with me… So run scared cause we are coming to take back America…. The Liberal hypocracy should have been evident to you during Obama’s first Presidential campaign when he praised the United States for being the greatest nation on earth, then turn around and asked his followers to “change” it.. But you all were so enamoured with him you are all like groupies who lap up anything that he vomits up…… Ignore any negative facts and get angry that anyone does not approve of him… Well, if you won by a majority then some of your majority no longer agrees with you proven in Obama’s falling approval ratings…..

            This says it best….

          • DavidAppell

            So run scared cause we are coming to take back America….

            Ha ha. You extremists were just badly defeated, and held the country and the world hostage for nothing at all. Bluster won’t hide you disdain for the country and your hatred of anyone who doesn’t buy into your schlock.

            Fortunately the Tea Party has been severaly wounded, and is likely finished. Nice play.

          • .

            DA, ‘snort’ for Deranged American

          • .

            You’re coming alright, Pee Wee Herman Appell.

          • DavidAppell

            …then turn around and asked his followers to “change” it.

            Yes, a lot of think the US needs a lot of change. And some of it is happening, which seems to scare the heck out of people like you.

          • DavidAppell

            …your majority no longer agrees with you proven in Obama’s falling approval ratings…..
            This says it best….

            Republican approval ratings have fallen much further (and the Teabaggers even more). And it’s a zero-sum game.

          • .

            Pusan U, Kim Jong-Il Appellcorps’mn!

      • Ballistic45

        David you are such a Socialist.. Tell me any President who has allowed Congress not to submit a budget for signing for as long as Obama, PLEASE… How many budgets has the House submitted compared to the Senate, How many budgets has the Senate shot down compared to the House.. Trouble is the Demorats talk the talk of compromise but they don’t walk the walk…
        Like Muslims you cannot believe a damn thing they say just watch what they do.. Obama is the Poster Child of a two faced liar… And you idiot lemmings don’t even acknowledge his bold face lies for what they are and the character he has shown to the world…

        • DavidAppell

          “A budget isn’t necessary. Budget resolutions don’t have the force of law. Appropriations bills are where spending is allocated. While the budget provides a long-term framework for spending and revenue, lawmakers don’t actually have to pass one. While the Senate is legally required to pass a budget, there is no penalty for not doing so.

          “The fact is that you don’t need a budget,” Rep. Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) said last year. “We can adopt appropriation bills and we can adopt authorization policies without a budget.”
          – Washington Post, 1/22/13

        • DavidAppell

          PS: Are you even aware that not everyone considers “socialist” to be a derogatory label? There is already a lot of socialism in the US — especially for Wall Street — and it is the only known way to provide universal, affordable health insurance, as several dozen countries around the world have demonstrated.

          By the way, the ACA is much less socialistic than Medicare, since it relies on private insurers.

          • 3H

            Ballistic needs simplistic labels. It makes it easier for him to ignore truths, or viewpoints, he’d rather not hear.

        • DavidAppell

          PPS: Not having a budget does not make one a “socialist.” Both capitalists and socialists can decide not to make a budget, and the choice says nothing about one’s underlying economic philosophy.

          • Ballistic45

            What house can stand without a Budget? What house can stand when it spends more than it takes in? What house can demand that creditors keep increasing its Credit Limit? How sustainable is a House that lives without a budget, spends more than it takes in, and keeps demanding more credit? Liberals evidently think forever and keep kicking the can of fiscal responsibility further down the road… And then declare conservatives like the Tea Party as Right wing extremist for the calling of our Government to live within its means just like all families have to do to survive… But the joke is on the American people, Liberals don’t want this house to survive as it has for over 200 years, it is about the “Changing” of America to a Socialist State and to do that, this house has to fall in order to rebuild a Communist country, the dream of Obama, Saul Alinsky and William Ayers and the stupid Democrats who have been sucked into supporting them…

          • DavidAppell

            What house can stand without a Budget?

            Clearly the US house can, as the WaPo article I quoted says — Congress passed the relevant appropriations bills.

            You have some chutzpah complaining about funding government, when your Teabaggers were just willing to default on the national debt to score a tiny political point or two — when even then they didn’t win anything.

            You are in absolutely no position to lecture anyone about budgetary ethics.

          • DavidAppell

            What house can demand that creditors keep increasing its Credit Limit?

            Is the US having trouble selling its debt?
            Have they driven up interest rates?
            Are you willing to increase revenues to cover the budgetary gap?

          • DavidAppell

            just like all families have to do to survive

            Terrible. Governments are not families. Is that really too much for your brain to comprehend? They have tools at their disposal that families do not.

            And, by the way — most families spend the majority of their lives in debt.

          • DavidAppell

            Liberals don’t want this house to survive as it has for over 200 years

            You’re certainly right about this — we don’t.

            Many of us see the majority of US history as one dominated by a small segment of the population, whose wealth too often came at the expense of minorities, women, the working poor and the disenfrashised.

            So we advocate changes, and they are happening. (Do you find that scary?) Rightful places for minorities (who are increasingly the majority), women, immigrants, gays, atheists, the uninsured poor, and more.

            The world is changing — and you can’t stop it.

          • Ballistic45

            Thanks David, you just made my point.. Forgetting of course that not one Socialist or Communist State runs without a ruling elitist class who doesn’t give a damn about the Rights of citizens no matter who they are and still derives their wealth from the Poor.. Only difference is this Industrial ruling class you so hate can be controlled by an effective small Government, the Government you want to replace it with is a bloated, costly Government Ruling class that would have NO opposition against their rule, who is already seeking to limit citizen rights even further… GOOD CHOICE David..

          • DavidAppell

            What socialism is it you’re opposed to? That the government helps pay for homeowner mortgages, mostly for the upper middle class? That it already pays part of everyone’s health insurance by favorable tax laws? Agricultural subsidies? Flood insurance subsidies? Wall Street bailouts (how many trillions did that cost, anyway?).Corporate welfare? Did you see the recent report that the government pays $7B/yr for the safety net that supports fast food workers, because they aren’t paid a livable wage?
            So you’ll need to be more specific — there is a lot of US socialism to choose from.

          • Ballistic45

            Government has become an industry, where crisis pays more in financial support from lobbyist than to solve problems. Both parties have used the Constitution for ASS wipe for decades.. Washington DC is a house of whores turning tricks for the ones with the most money.. This Administration vilifies the very people who financially are their highest contributors, ie industrialist..

          • DavidAppell

            Forgetting of course that not one Socialist or Communist State runs without a ruling elitist class who doesn’t give a damn about the Rights of citizens no matter who they are and still derives their wealth from the Poor.

            Here is the Heritage Foundation’s country rankings for their economic freedom index:
            The US ranks #10. Many of the countries above us have more socialism than we do, including Australia, New Zealand, Switzerland, Canada, and Denmark.
            So clearly your thesis can’t be correct. Why don’t you try again?

          • Ballistic45

            Including the USA, 6 of those 10 are on a downward trend in economic Freedoms, and you are all wet in the pants about that?

          • DavidAppell

            Really? Which 6?

          • DavidAppell

            And please reconcile your earllier claim about socialism and freedom with the Heritage Foundation’s freedom rankings. Because it sure looks like you were just wrong.

          • Ballistic45

            NO liberal can deny that they are not following several Marxist plans to destroy America from within..
            It is the Liberal movement attacking the morality of Human Sexual behavior calling it an alternative life style..

            It is Liberals who attack Patriotism and the display of the American Flag on private property using City Ordnances or gated community regulations. More and more public schools are disciplining children for patriotic behavior like wearing a Tee Shirt with an American flag so as not to offend anyone..

            It is liberals who are Questioning the right of returning GI’s to enjoy the rights of Citizenship they fought for, vilifying them as Potential Domestic Terrorist..

            It is liberals attacking the free exercise of Religion mainly the Christian Religion while apparently supporting Atheism and Islam even indoctrinating our children in public schools to accept them over the practice of Christian beliefs. Who hide behind separation of church and state, a NON-Constitutional expression written in a letter not in the Constitution.. In fact the Constitution expressly says in the First Amendment; “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.”

            It is a Liberal President who has proclaimed it is illegal for Peaceful Citizens to gather in protest and for the redress of grievances within his view or path to be enforced by his Secret Service personnel

            All of this is in lock step with Stalins statement;
            “America is like a healthy body and its resistance is threefold: its patriotism, its morality and its spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within.” – Joseph Stalin

            It is liberals who are flooding our economic system with taxes to cover entitlement programs, welfare, illegal alien support systems all in lock step with the The Cloward-Piven Plan People who are familiar with the likes of Saul Alinsky and William Ayers are familiar with the strategy, as are the full complement of the Progressive Movement.

            In a nutshell, the underlying principle of the Cloward-Piven Strategy is to so overload the entitlement system – to add so many to the entitlement rolls, that the country’s economic system collapses, unleashing chaos and violence in the streets, thus affecting radical Leftist political change in government.

            It is the liberals who fight against any accountability and integrity of the vote.. Fighting against voter requirement of a Photo ID, All in lock step with another Stalin Quote; “It’s not the people who vote that count. It’s the people who count the votes.” (Joseph Stalin) Which allows the vote counter greater opportunities to count illegal votes…

            It is the Liberals who force us to send our children to foreign lands to protect oil reserves in countries that hate us while requiring us to spend our hard earned money on their oil at exorbitant prices… They do this under the name of Conservation of the Planet, evidently the Planet only contains the United States for it is here that they have locked down any increase use of our own abundant fossil fuel reserves which would keep our money home providing jobs and increased National Security.. And most of all we would not have to continue protecting the oil of others…. Which is also meant to increase living cost and dependence on government fitting right in with the Cloward-Piven plan..

            If any group in America can be labeled a group of Domestic Terrorist it is the Liberals and their agenda…. This President alone has increased our debt more in his first year of office than all previous Presidents.. No one but liberals can be blamed for it.. Obama inherited the mess of the liberally controlled Congressional making..

          • DavidAppell

            Actually, a lot of people in both the middle and on the left think it is the extreme right trying to destroy America from within — by paralyzing government, thwarting real economic stimulus, insisting on your own subsidies while denying them to others, and keeping the poor and uninsured in their place.
            To them you look traitorous and insane, choosing to destroy the country because your place in it is changing, never to come back again.

          • Ballistic45

            Lets see, it was a Liberal Controlled Congress that for decades added entitlements, bailouts to big business, uncontrolled spending, locked down Domestic energy, opened the housing market to those who could never hope to pay off contracts, allowed lenders to bundle and resell them causing an over bloated value leading to a bubble… It was those liberals in congress that thwarted any increased congressional overview of those engaged buying and selling these bundles… We have seen the numerous federally funded Alternative Energy Companies FAIL all the while getting alleged kickbacks from those same companies to the Democrats.. It is the Liberal Movement attacking our Patriotism, its Morality and our Spiritual life.. It is the Liberals and RINO’s who advocate for foreign invaders amnesty and fast path citizenship who kill or maim more US Citizens each year than the Islamic Terrorist can manage… It is the Liberal controlled EPA who circumvents Congress in enacting new regulations driving up living cost that mostly hurt the very people Democrats are suppose to be protecting… Sell it to your liberal lemming, that dog don’t hunt for people who think…

          • DavidAppell

            Yes, what a shame that Nixon, Ford, Reagan, or Bush I didn’t have the cojones to counter a liberal Congress. So sad they gave in to the will of the electorate.

          • DavidAppell

            It is the Liberal Movement attacking our Patriotism, its Morality and our Spiritual life.

            That’s easy to explain. You have no patriotism — you all were just recently willing to blog the US out of the economic waters so you could feel good. You have no special hold on morality or spiritual life — you’re just a bunch of poseurs who talk one way and live another way. You are utter hypocrites, claiming to follow a man who preached acceptance and love while doing nothing of the sort yourself.

            It’s no wonder more and more people find you unChristian — because you are. Look within before you accuse others of not respecting you.

          • DavidAppell

            It is the Liberal controlled EPA who circumvents Congress in enacting new regulations driving up living cost that mostly hurt the very people Democrats are suppose to be protecting…

            Really? Like who? You? You’re rich enough to pay for clean energy, pal.

            The Clean Air Act has saved an estimated $22 trillion since 1970:

            Would you rather we have heavy smog like China??

          • DavidAppell

            It is the Liberal movement attacking the morality of Human Sexual behavior calling it an alternative life style.
            No, it is liberals pointing out your bigotry and lack of tolerance for people born with a sexuality other than your own.
            It is a fight you have already lost. You look as backward as did those who once tried to justify slavery or the suppression of women.
            History moves forward. Either get on board, or become irrelevant.

          • DavidAppell

            And most of all we would not have to continue protecting the oil of others….
            This is just ignorant. First of all, US oil production is rising sharply, and imports are at their lowest percentage in over 20 years.
            Look up the statistics instead of drinking whatever Fox News is telling you.
            Second of all, that oil is sold on the WORLD market — it is not reserved for US consumption alone. (That would be nationalizing a resource, and you would scream “sozialism!!”)
            Third of all, those fuels alter the climate for the next 100,000 years, at least, and acidify the ocean. What arrogance! — that you think you have a right to pollute the world for a thousand generations. Talk about a lack of morals….

          • Ballistic45

            Yep, and can you name ONE new refinery that has been allowed by left wing environmentalist to be built in the United States in the last 20 years? There is a set capacity of refining, dah.. And most of those old refineries are on the Gulf Coast Area vulnerable to weather shut downs and damages.. So we sell our own cheap Raw Oil to foreign lands who refine it and sell it back to us…
            Socialist like you feel it is only the United States who pollutes? You don’t seem to understand that our Sweet Oil which we have abundantly is less polluting to refine than dirty crude from foreign lands… And sense when is it required to give up one energy source or make it so expensive to drive up living cost BEFORE we can begin moving to alternative energies…. Can’t we pat our heads and rub our Tommies at the same time?

          • DavidAppell

            Are you really unaware that US oil production has been rising? Can you not do a simple Google and find that graph?

            Which is unfortunate — we need to get off oil, and off all fossil fuels, because they are creating a huge amount of climate change. You clearly could not care less — you think everyone else should just accept your pollution and shut up.

            Those days are done, Chief.

          • DavidAppell

            And sense when is it required to give up one energy source or make it so expensive to drive up living cost BEFORE we can begin moving to alternative energies.

            Do you only buy the cheapest food you can find?

            No, of course you do not.

            Why, then, should you seek out the cheapest energy you can find, regardless of its side effects?

            Do you care about anyone but yourself? Because I really can’t tell.

          • DavidAppell

            So we sell our own cheap Raw Oil to foreign lands who refine it and sell it back to us…

            No — you still don’t understand the situation.

            Refined oil is sold ON THE WORLD MARKET. It isn’t reserved for anyone, but goes to the highest bidder.

            Do you have a problem with free markets?

          • DavidAppell

            You don’t seem to understand that our Sweet Oil which we have abundantly is less polluting to refine than dirty crude from foreign lands…

            Prove it. (You can’t.)

            You especially can’t prove it when it comes to the most serious pollutant of all — CO2. There is little difference then, and all that oil is seriously altering our climate, for many, many millenia.

            Do you even care that your unwillingless to pay for clean energy is causing so much damage for so long? Do you?

          • Ballistic45

            Prove it is MAN’s fault, my concern is people like you who vilify every Crisis as man’s fault, real or made up in order to shove more government controls down our throats before real Scientific data is in… Dah, wasn’t it just a few years ago that Al the “Internet Maker” was foaming at the mouth about the Man caused coming ICE AGE? And had all the DATA to prove it…. I do care about wasting money on projects that only launder money for the Liberal Agenda that go no where while I have to pay more money to use the proven energy while we wait for REAL ANSWERS… Tell me what this Administration has really done in moving us to a alternative and meaningful replacement for fossil fuels and Hydro power? Then COMPARE that, if any, to the Cost in Federal funding losses AND Cost of Living increases we are paying !!! HOW MUCH BANG FOR THE BUCK are we getting?

          • DavidAppell

            Prove it is MAN’s fault

            This has been known now for over 20 years. If you are not aware of the evidence, you aren’t really trying, and have chosen to be ignorant.

            Learn the science before offering your (wrong) opinion.

          • Ballistic45

            No it has not, it has been challenged by scientific peers ever sense it was first introduced as man’s fault.. Most of the data was from Computer Models which turned out to be not so accurate.. Hell, Climatologist still can’t predict the weather accurately out to 2 weeks or give an accurate prediction of storm paths…

            Liberals have been so wrong on so many issues with so called facts that you are all starting to sound like those little dolls with the pull string that just regurgitates what ever has been programmed into them…. And just like those dolls, you never apologize for any of your mistakes, you just ignore them and move on to another tactic..

          • DavidAppell

            You are ignorant of the science behind anthropogenic global warming.

            Learn it. It has been known for over 100 years that man’s CO2 emissions would heat the planet.

          • DavidAppell

            Dah, wasn’t it just a few years ago that Al the “Internet Maker” was foaming at the mouth about the Man caused coming ICE AGE?

            False. Ignorant. Dumb. And just stupid.

            I’m sorry to have to call this “stupid,” but it is. Laughably stupid.

            You have no idea what you’re talking about. No wonder you hide your real name.

          • DavidAppell

            Tell me what this Administration has really done in moving us to a alternative and meaningful replacement for fossil fuels and Hydro power?

            It is seeking to regulate coal-fueled power plants out of existence, and has held off the Keystone XL pipeline…. Both are horrific carbon polluters that should not be allowed on the market — their product alters the climate for at least 100,000 years. There’s no way such a product should be allowed on the market….

          • Ballistic45

            AND, what did they replace it with? Not a friggin thing, all they have managed to do is raise the cost of living hurting the poor the most and gain Government control over yet another sector of our lives…

            Seems to me that you forget it was Liberals vilifying Nuclear Plants, stopping all new construction of them for ah, the very same excuses you use to vilify fossil fuels.. What was the alternative Liberals offered in place of Nuclear, ah, COAL fired plants, and we were forced to build HUNDREDS of them.. CO2 didn’t matter to liberal thinking then did it? NOW Liberals are taking a second look at Nuclear, WTF… It was Liberals who in California passed a law that a percentage of cars sold in the state had to be Electric, GM complied with the EV1 and it was soon popular with those who leased them, (You could not buy them) GM didn’t want them really on the market.. Under pressure the California CARB decided not to challenge Court rulings for Automakers even when they had Federal EPA support. It appears the liberal movement in California wanted more power before settling on a real answer to pollution like SMOG in the cities…

          • DavidAppell

            Like you care about the poor.

            You are rich enough to pay for clean energy. It’s time you be forced to do so, instead of altering a valuable resource for the next thousand generations.

            The poor’s energy can, and should, be subsidized, so it is clean. Not yours.

            You are shoveling your own expenses off onto future generations, because you are greedy and selfish, unwilling to pay another cent or two per kWh.

            That has to end. Now.

          • Ballistic45

            The oil is still coming from Canada but by truck and rail, far more likely to encounter accidents of spillage than a pipeline… Check to see who is profiting from this mod of oil transportation.. Could it be any of this administrations friends?

          • DavidAppell

            How much by truck or rail? Numbers?

            Not as much, clearly, as could come by pipeline, or they wouldn’t be so keen to get it. All they want to do it make money, and the rest of the world be damned.

            That has to be stopped. Their profits are not as important as the climate resource for the next 4,000 generations.

          • DavidAppell

            Truck spills are not like pipelline spills — the latter are far more serious, since they dump much larger amounts into a single-point.

            And neither is acceptalbe w.r.t. carbon emissions. Fossil fuels must end. Period.

          • R S

            UMM fire bad. Were will we get all the vegetables to feed 7 billion people and how are we to get them from the fields to the masses. At least you can eat them raw so will not need cooking fuel. Of course folks in the north states will have to huddle up to keep warm. No cheating now and using wood, coal, LP or NG, or fuel oils. Just suck it up and huddle.
            Or maybe the whole population can migrate so those down south will not need and air conditioning in the summer, got to stop that freon also (it is lighter then air so it raises into the ozone).

          • DavidAppell

            “The modern conservative is engaged in one of man’s oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.”
            — John Kenneth Galbraith

          • DavidAppell

            It is the Liberal movement attacking the morality of Human Sexual behavior calling it an alternative life style.
            You whine about freedom, and then, when people actually use it to live their lives as they choose, you whine about that.
            You don’t want people to be free. You want them to live according to your dictates.

          • Ballistic45

            I don’t care what people do in bed as long as it breaks no laws or tries to hijack a world wide institution known as a union of a man and woman called “Marriage”.. I don’t care if they join in a legal union they can name for themselves, it’s their union… The “Marriage” name is already taken by heterosexuals. New words are being added everyday to the English language, are alternative life style movement followers so ignorant they cannot come up with a Name to recognize their union.. But hey, isn’t the real purpose to tear down traditional meanings long held over time? I don’t like the “State” indoctrinating kids in a captive environment (Public Schools) regarding acceptance of life styles in conflict with their religious beliefs, that is a violation by Governments recognition of “The Church of ‘Alternative Life Style’.” over any other belief system, UN-Constitutional.. You would be the first to scream if any Church was allowed to counter the view in the same discussion within that very public school Alternative Lifestyle Class, would you not?

          • DavidAppell

            Is someone trying to “hijack” the ability of men and women to get married? Of course not.

            No one has exclusive rights to a word, not even “marriage.” Anyone can use it. Many of us think it is the best word for any such union, whether heterosexual or homosexual.

            Your side is losing this debate badly. The world is changing. Deal with it.

          • DavidAppell

            I don’t like the “State” indoctrinating kids in a captive environment (Public Schools)

            Baloney. You liked it just fine when it was only your values that were being indoctrinated.

            It’s only now that the moral understanding of values has changed that you are complaining.

            This always happens when moral values change. And there is never any going back.

            Change with it, or get trampled, as so many have gotten trampled in the past. You are an old man in a changing world, and such men never, ever fare well.

          • DavidAppell

            You would be the first to scream if any Church was allowed to counter the view in the same discussion within that very public school Alternative Lifestyle Class, would you not?

            No, I would not. I don’t think churches have any special relevance to the issues of today. And I certainly don’t think they have any special standing on morality!

  • Joe Jumalon

    Finally Establishment Republicans are standing up to Obama! If these guys fold it could be the final nail in the Republican party coffin!

  • JECBama

    President Obama should be the one rejected from office for the poor job he is doing As for his health care it should include both houses of Congress and the President too because IF its good enough for us then its good enough for them too !

    • DavidAppell

      Neither White House employees (including the President) or employees of Congress (including Congressmen and women) are exempt from the ACA.

      • .

        O-o-o, what you just stated! Politi-fact slant or grant from the Liars Club of COTUS, you pathological friar?

        You know full well that Congress is so self serving that the rest of US are freaking sick and tired of it. .

        • DavidAppell

          CNN Fact Check: “Congress is no more exempt than any other employer who drops coverage and then helps employees purchase insurance on the exchanges.”

          • .

            Stop toying with Your CONgressional Mattel of Honor, It’s already showing signs of corrosion.

          • Noble Durham

            Perceive Lars Larson OC post, Oct 25, ‘Why isn’t Congress covered by Obamacare’

          • DavidAppell

            Larson is wrong — Congress is covered by the ACA, and is not exempt.

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