Say What You Will, at Least Evan Bayh is Honest

“But if I could create one job in the private sector by helping to grow a business, that would be one more than Congress has created in the last six months.”

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Posted by at 07:18 | Posted in Measure 37 | 19 Comments |Email This Post Email This Post |Print This Post Print This Post
  • Matt Evans

    He was honest about that, but not about other things. Decrying “excessive partisanship” that prevents Congress from getting things done when Democrats have held a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate for almost a year, as well as complete control of the House and of course the Presidency, is among the dishonest things Sen. Bayh said. The President’s agenda to secure government control of health care, burden the economy with excessive “climate change” taxes and regulations and transfer billions of taxpayer dollars to his political allies behind closed doors has been rejected by the American people. I’m sure Bayh finds them “too partisan.”

  • Anonymous

    I think he may have been lamenting his own party’s partisan politics as well as Republicans. Yes, he has been part of that mess himself. But I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt for now and believe he really did look at himself in the mirror and say “I just can’t do this any more.”

    Good for him for waking up. Good for us that his seat is competitive. It’s a win for all. Except Obama.

  • valley p

    If he really thinks the federal government has not managed to create a single job in the last 6 months, then it is good he is not running again because he is dead wrong.

    • Anonymous

      please cite reliable sources for your claim

      • valley p

        Sure. IHS Global Insight, Moody’s, and Macroeconomic Advisors (all politically neutral entities) estimate the stimulus is responsible for 1.6-1.8 million jobs to date, and expect the net to be 2.5 million by the time all the money is spent. The CBO, also politically neutral, says this estimate is overly conservative, and the numbers are higher.

        So Even Bayh does not know what the hell he is talking about. Good riddance.

        • Moron Detector

          What a pile of crap!

          • Anonymous

            Whoa! What just happened there? Did the Moron Detector catch a glimpse of his own reflection in a mirror?

      • Anonymous
        • Rupert in Springfield

          Yeah, ok, so you both cut and pasted from a NYT article that says Moodys claimed this or that.

          It would be nice if they actually gave the Moodys report etc, for that assessment.

          If you look at the CBS article – it claims the CBO estimates the stimulus created between 600k and 1.6M jobs. Wow, thats really pinning it down.

          Whats important to note is a few things – first of all the stimulus did create jobs. That is inarguable. You hand the state some money and they hire another guy at DMV, that’s creating a job.

          Now of course that job doesn’t have a lot of value because you can only borrow from China for so long to hire guys at the DMV to do jobs a moderately trained orangutan could do and pay them $20 an hour along with the legendary lavish state retirement.

          Borrowing from China to create a job does create jobs, but it does not create wealth when those jobs are of the make work variety. Its conceivable that non make work jobs, such as hiring for temporary road construction could spur economic activity and create wealth.

          If you hire another desk jockey though, you havnt done anything but wealth transfer, either inter generational, through borrowing, or from the middle class to the rich, through taxation of the general populace transferred to state workers.

          I do note that the Times article does mentuion the criticizm of the BO plan for making the spending to slow. Something I have maintained since its inception and which Dean has been in denial about.

          Nice to see you citing a source that agrees with me on that one Dean!

          • valley p

            “Whats important to note is a few things – first of all the stimulus did create jobs. That is inarguable.”

            Then why did senator Bye bye say what he said?

            “Borrowing from China to create a job does create jobs, but it does not create wealth when those jobs are of the make work variety. Its conceivable that non make work jobs, such as hiring for temporary road construction could spur economic activity and create wealth.”

            If a worker fixes a road or bridge that is necessary to commerce, then it is essential to wealth, not simply “conceivable”. If it pays for a new electrical transmission line (see Bonneville) it moves electrons, many of which are wealth or wealth generating. You seem to not have the first clue what is being built with our borrowed money, or how wealth is generated.

            “If you hire another desk jockey though, you havnt done anything but wealth transfer..”

            Well if we are happy having a world without DMV clerks, then we would be happy having people drive around without driver’s licenses, and I suppose the increased car wrecks resulting in increased medical costs, increased insurance costs, and increased car repair bills would be a way of generating more wealth in the odd, twisted, world of Rupert. I say if the Chinese want to loan us money at near zero interest to pay our DMV clerks, then fine. Why look a gift horse in the mouth.

            “I do note that the Times article does mentuion the criticizm of the BO plan for making the spending to slow. Something I have maintained since its inception and which Dean has been in denial about.”
            Unlike you
            Yes, it “mentioned the criticism.” I don’t deny that the money is being metered out. I’m happy about that. Worthwhile projects take time to build right, and the loss of 10 million jobs is not going to be compensated for by spending the entire wad in a few weeks. For a self proclaimed conservative, you sure have wasteful suggestions about how to spend public money. But if I stop and think about it, ALL self-proclaimed conservatives seem to suffer from the same affliction. See: unnecessary war, Iraq.

            “Nice to see you citing a source that agrees with me on that one Dean! ”

            Well, you can be very selective and focus on that one point of agreement. Or you can look at the Gestalt and it is clear that the entire point of the article was that “the source” says the stimulus plan has worked and will continue to work for some time to come. That is hardly agreeing with you.

            But if it makes you happy thinking a NY Times writer agreed with you, then that is the main thing Rupert.

          • Rupert in Springfield

            >Then why did senator Bye bye say what he said?

            Wait a second, first you are off to cite evidence that what Bye bye said was wrong, now you are asking me to explain it?

            This is nuts even for you.

            >f a worker fixes a road or bridge that is necessary to commerce, then it is essential to wealth, not simply “conceivable”.

            No one ever argued differently.

            In fact I argued this exact thing, if a road is necessary to commerce and someone builds it then it is conceivable the investment helps to create wealth

            You are restating my case to refute it?

            Are you off your meds again?

            >You seem to not have the first clue what is being built with our borrowed money, or how wealth is generated.

            Well, I know I outlined examples of both types of jobs, those that create wealth and those that are make work. You cited examples of only the former and think somehow that refutes my argument.

            That’s it, you are completely off your meds.

            >I say if the Chinese want to loan us money at near zero interest to pay our DMV clerks, then fine. Why look a gift horse in the mouth.

            Thank God yu are not in charge of the Treasury with this sort of simpletons mentality..

            The point being that if the Chinese stop loaning us money, then we have to lay off the chimp at the DMV. No wealth has been created, unlike a bridge repair guy.

            You start getting too many government trough feeder jobs that produce no wealth and we are beholden to whoever holds our bonds. They can crash our economy any time they want simply by refusing to buy more.

            Not so the case with jobs that produce wealth.

            >I don’t deny that the money is being metered out.

            No one ever said you did deny it.

            What you did deny was that it was a mistake to do so. Every economist out there said the BO plan made the same mistake the Japanese made in the 90’s getting the money out too slowly. you were in denial about that forever, nice to see you cite a source that points it out to you.

            Since we are in higher unemployment than BO forcast, looks like they were right!

            I wouldn’t expect you to learn from it though.

            >Well, you can be very selective and focus on that one point of agreement.

            Did you miss that the entire first three quarters of my post was not about this point?

            Looks like more Dean boobery here.

            >But if it makes you happy thinking a NY Times writer agreed with you

            Ahh, good old Dean Weasel Number One – inability to read.

            I said he agreed with me on “that one”.

            You construed that to thinking I was saying the entire article was about that one point?

            What absurdity, but that is the part you are destined to play.

            Since you can never admit you are wrong you can never learn, thus are condemned to such foolishness.

          • Anonymous

            Hey Rupert, just curious, have you ever read Aristotle’s Nicomachean Ethics?

          • valley p

            Now this is funny. In a sense that being in a mental institution could be funny.

            I wrote: if a worker fixes a road or bridge that is necessary to commerce, then it is essential to wealth, not simply *conceivable*

            And you respond: “No one ever argued differently.

            And then added: “In fact I argued this exact thing, if a road is necessary to commerce and someone builds it then it is *conceivable* the investment helps to create wealth ”

            Conceivable means “capable of being imagined” Rupert. That does not equal “essential.” In fact, its a long way off.

            “The point being that if the Chinese stop loaning us money, then we have to lay off the chimp at the DMV. No wealth has been created, unlike a bridge repair guy.”

            That is only true if no wealth is created due to consumer demand due to the paycheck of the DMV “chimp” made possible by borrowing from the Chinese (more so from the Japanese as it turns out). But any economist will tell you that consumer demand is necessary for wealth creation. Even Henry Ford knew this, which is why he wanted his workers to be able to afford the stuff they were making. No “chimps” with money to spend, no demand, no need to create anything for them. No wealth. The opposite of Ayn Rand, who seemed to believe (as you seem to do) that “wealth” had nothing to do with the masses ability to buy anything.

            “Since you can never admit you are wrong you can never learn, thus are condemned to such foolishness. ”

            We are in full agreement.

    • Mary’s Opinion

      The phrase “create jobs” or “created jobs” when used to describe putting people who have lost their jobs back to work really irritates me. The job I lost in the summer of 2009 because of the economy didn’t disappear (cease to be). The work was still there. There was just less of it. An employee from another department, who also had less work, assumed some of the work I formerly did. So if the economy improves or if my former employer receives stimulus money and hires a new employee into my old job does that mean a job was created? Wouldn’t it be more accurate even perhaps more honest to say a job was recovered? To me “create jobs” means business growth and the need to hire more employees to meet the sales, service or manufacturing needs of a growing business entity. And I don’t mean government entity. Your input please.

      • valley p

        “So if the economy improves or if my former employer receives stimulus money and hires a new employee into my old job does that mean a job was created?”

        It depends.. Your job, along with 10 million others was lost due to a financial crisis. Government stimulus, low interest rates, and a few trillion in increased money supply (the Fed) put a floor under the collapse and has stimulated some demand that is now resulting in jobs being regained. Not all regained jobs are directly due to the stimulus. A lot are due to other measures, like the hated bank bailout, the hated GM bailout, and printing a lot of extra dollars and getting those circulating.

        Business has to have a market. Without people having the ability and confidence to spend there is no market. The stimulus is in large part a substitution of government spending for private spending.

        • Jerry

          The stimulus is a joke. This O guy has not done one single thing to help anybody. We are now so in debt that nothing else really matters.

  • Bob Tiernan

    *Mary:*

    The job I lost in the summer of 2009 because of the economy didn’t disappear (cease to be). The work was still there. There was just less of it. An employee from another department, who also had less work, assumed some of the work I formerly did.

    *Bob T:*

    You’re confusing a job title with amount of work needed. Your job did disappear because there wasn’t enough work to justify keeping both you and your co-worker who took up your dimishining duties. The need for *you* disappeared. If a company had five full time workers and the amount of work dropped by 50%, all five can still be given their usual things to do but they might be done for the day by noon instead of 5 p.m. So two of them get pink slips and another is reduced to working Mon-Wed.

    Bob Tiernan
    Portland

    • Mary’s Opinion

      Bob,

      Thank you for your reply. You described what happened to me and my employer almost to the T. Like most folks who have lost their jobs, it’s a little hard to swallow “the need for me disappeared.”
      Especially when then are so few suitable jobs available. A few months ago, I asked a human resource person how many applicants there were for the position I applied for. She said 400!

      #3.2.1 valley p made a very important statement. “Business has to have a market. Without people having the ability and confidence to spend there is no market.” Absolutely true. The market for my former employers product was significantly reduced over time.

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