Vancouver Light Rail To Portland Will be Slooooow!

By Jim Karlock,

Presently commuters can board C-Tran buses at various locations around Vancouver for a direct ride into downtown Portland. The one that boards in downtown Vancouver reaches downtown Portland in just 15 minutes. Contrast this with MAX that takes 30 minutes to get from the Expo Center to downtown Portland. (This difference is so striking that I even asked C-Tran if their express buses to/from Portland kept on schedule. The answer was that the generally do!)

Why would Portland’s planners insist on extending MAX into Vancouver, only to see transit users’ commute time doubled. Why don’t planners care about forcing commuters to waste an extra ½ hour a day on their commute? The only answer seems to be that light rail is not for transportation, it is about high density development. Which, in turn, is about tax give aways to favored developers. More importantly (to planners) light rail is about extending Portland’s failed land use policies into Vancouver.
This becomes even more obvious when you realize that, according to the CRC project’s DEIS, only 1650 people use transit to cross the river each day while 81,000 use the road every day. Why is Metro and Sam Adams pushing, an almost BILLION dollars, for light rail to replace buses which only serve 1650 people, while proposing downsizing the improvements to the bridge that serves 81,000 people?

More at www.NoLightRail.com
and www.NoBridgeTolls.com

Thanks
JK

Post to Twitter Post to Facebook Post to LinkedIn Post to Reddit

Posted by at 06:07 | Posted in Measure 37 | 85 Comments |Email This Post Email This Post |Print This Post Print This Post
  • Jessie

    The answer to your question is because they are stupid.

  • Reper

    We all expect it to be slow, we just want to make sure the train is nice and shiny.

  • Rupert in Springfield

    >Why would Portland’s planners insist on extending MAX into Vancouver, only to see transit users’ commute time doubled.

    There are generally three reasons why trains are chosen over busses.

    One – Train projects are massive. They have great sex appeal to planners for that reasons. These people got into government with the idea of doing big things. No congressman runs for office because he cant wait to help out little old ladies whose SS check is late. No mayor wants to be elected because he can’t wait to straighten out union issues with the police department. They want to do big things, trains are a bigger thing than ordering a few busses.

    Two – Massive cost. This is linked to one, politicians and city planners love massively expensive items. Lets face it we all do. Because trains are so expensive they will often be subsidized by the federal government with matching funds of some kind. Mo money, mo money… mo money.

    Three – Employment. Trains require a huge number of people to build them. Track needs to be laid, terminals and stations need to be built. These are high dollar Davis Bacon act jobs. That means largely union work and we all know a thing or two about politicians and unions. Contrast this with busses. They require little or no infrastructure beyond what is probably in place already. The busses themselves are generally bought out of state so there is no job creation in the state where they may be put to use.

    Note that none of these reasons concern the commuting populace of the location these trains are meant to serve. Nowadays trains are largely built for reasons other than serving commuters. We see this with such folly as you bring up.

  • v person

    “The one that boards in downtown Vancouver reaches downtown Portland in just 15 minutes.”

    How can that be if the bus is stuck in the same I-5 traffic as everyone else? Are you talking about a 10 PM ride or an 8AM ride?

    • Ninja

      I thought Dean wasn’t allowed to post anymore.

    • jim karlock

      Morning rush hour. The schedules are posted at the link (or you can go to C-Tran)

      Thanks
      JK

      • v person

        So the schedule says they can get riders from downtown Vancouver to downtown Portland during morning rush hour in 15 minutes? I strongly doubt they actually achieve that. And I have even more doubt they can get someone home during the afternoon rush in 15 minutes on most days. It would take a small miracle or some sort of magic bus that can pass through stopped cars and trucks.

        • jim karlock

          Did you bother to read the email from C-Tran whre they said that they keep the schedule?

          Thanks
          JK

          • v person

            Nope. But I’ll tell you what. You do a field trip. Drive or bus to Vancouver some weekday morning between 7 and 9, hop on their bus and time it to downtown PDX. If you make it in 15 minutes report back and I’ll buy you a coffee or tea beverage of your choice.

          • jim karlock

            Since you are too lazy to look at the facts, here is the entire C-Tran statement (bold added) From http://www.nolightrail.com/:

            Mr. Karlock,
            Thank you for your e-mail and interest in riding C-Tran. Our commuter buses along with non-commuter buses do their best to keep their given schedules, they are however subject to traffic issues. *Generally, they are on schedule but may at times run into unavoidable difficulties particularly on Friday afternoons.*
            Hope this helps answer your question.
            Sincerely,
            Pam F
            Passenger Service Rep

          • v person

            OK. So lets go back to your original claim.

            “Presently commuters can board C-Tran buses at various locations around Vancouver for a direct ride into downtown Portland. The one that boards in downtown Vancouver reaches downtown Portland in just 15 minutes. ”

            Only it turns out that you realy meant these buses are “scheduled” to reach downtown in 15 minutes, only any person who has ever driven I-5 during rush hour knows this is BS, which is what I was pointing out. So now you sort of seem to admit I was right. And I don’t owe you tea or coffee. That is just as well since you would probably dump it over my head.

            Now to your larger point. The advantage of light rail from Vancouver to Portland will be in the numbers of people it can move, and the multiple stops it can make, and its low operating cost per passenger. An express bus carries only 40 people or so, and makes no stops, unless you count the stop and go traffic it is stuck in. It can’t pick anyone up or drop them off along the way, and it takes a lot of drivers to move a few people. The obvious disadvantage is the capital cost.

          • jim karlock

            *So now you sort of seem to admit I was right.*
            No way. I posted the scheduled times and got C-Trans verification that their buses meet their schedule. If you have a beef with that, talk to C-Tran.

            *The advantage of light rail from Vancouver to Portland will be in the numbers of people it can move*
            That’s pretty silly: spend a billion dollars to move the current 1650 daily commuters to rail.

            *and the multiple stops it can make*
            Which is why it is so slow. And it only travels at 30 mph between stops.

            *and its low operating cost per passenger*
            actually a full bus is far cheaper than partly full light rail.
            Trimet’s bus lines of the type that rail replaces are cheaper than light rail.

            *An express bus . . . can’t pick anyone up or drop them off along the way*
            That’s why its fast.

            *The obvious disadvantage is the capital cost.*
            and operating costs too, compared to the type of bus line that rail replaces.

  • Bob Clark

    Most all government action these days seems to be to steer dollars from tax payers to companys and activists lining up to make bank on informational snake oil, for instance, man made global warming conjecture. It’s very sad the electorate falls for such non sense.

  • Anonymous

    dean-v,

    Your foolish and biased take on transit leaves you without any common sense at all.

    Yeah buses are scheduled, just like MAX trains and sometimes they don’t turn out that way, for either. Your attempt to embellish whatever scheduling problems the buses have is just bullshat.

    Furthermore the “rush hour” varies during the 7-9 AM and evening hours with schedule problems often at the peak and variable while also considered in the scheduling.
    But you’re just foolishly and dishonetly trying to propagandize advantage for MAX, as usual.

    You remind me of the global warming loons, which I am sure are are also.

    Now to your larger BS.
    The advantage of light rail from Vancouver to Portland is completely contrived like the coming Milwaukie line and others.
    A MAX train may move more people than A bus but there are many problems with the light rail which you completely ignore.
    The opertating cost is not as slight as you fantasize when all the real costs are included. Such as the massive debt service and the costly station and infrastructure makeovers needed within not many years.
    Another BIG problem is people have to drive to MAX to use it. Whereas buses service neighborhoods.
    Another huge disavantage in light rail is the rest of the story.
    The Scam that always immediately follows where many millions more tax dollars get diverted by attempts to “spur” the Transit Oriented Development which the light rail itself was sold as doing.
    And again massive debt service costs stack up.
    Of course the whole TOD/smart growth/new urbanism movement is the greater scam involved here. And the advocates are only too eager to beat the global warming drum to justify it all nd push for more. Despite the torrent of failure regionwide.
    Your peers and you have been pitching this fraud for too long. It is pure BS funded by tax dollars and advanced by every agency and their bureaucrats in sight.
    Hopefully you will all get shut down in the not too distant future. Perhaps as the current collapse of the global warming fraud unfolds the rest of the green fraud will follow.
    In short, you are wrong and you are dishonest.

    • v person

      Whatever you say there my unhinged anonymous stalker. But try as you might, you still won’t get a bus from Vancouver to downtown Portland during most rush hours. So the basis for Jim’s post is flimsy.

      As for the rest. I won’t get “shut down” and neither will you. We fortunately still live in a free nation with free speech rights.

  • Anonymous

    Perfect Deaniac,
    You managed to repeat your most useless comment above.

    Typical of you.

    How is it that you repeatedly say things that either are complete BS or every bozo here doesn’t need to be told?

    The buses run.
    You’re trying to cast bus transit inferiority to light rail transit with your usual tactics.

    The same way you misrepresented M3, M49 and global warming. etc.

    No you won’t and can’t be shut down.
    That was just another useless remark of yours.

    You can hang out here, seemingly on assignment, forever. Spewing your dishonest left wing advocacy for the same crap that’s been hurting Oregon for decades.

    You’re wrong as they come.
    Like ALL progressives your too hindred by your lack of perception and comprehension to figure out how dumb and detrimental most of the progressive agenda is.

  • Bob Tiernan

    *V Person:*

    So now you sort of seem to admit I was right.

    *Jim K:*

    No way. I posted the scheduled times and got C-Trans verification that their buses meet their schedule. If you have a beef with that, talk to C-Tran.

    *Bob T:*

    He was just trying to avoid paying for a cup of coffee. That’s how cheap he is.

    By the way, notice that he confused capacity with ridership again, when he
    wrote this: “The advantage of light rail from Vancouver to Portland will be in the
    numbers of people it can move.”

    Capacity is not ridership. They like to count empty seats, too.

    Bob Tiernan
    Portland

    • v person

      “Capacity is not ridership. They like to count empty seats, too”

      Who is they? The transit companies? Well if you don’t believe their head counts, then why believe their claim that a bus can make a 10 mile rush hour journey in gridlock in 15 minutes?

      “He was just trying to avoid paying for a cup of coffee. That’s how cheap he is.”

      I am cheap, no question about that. But I can afford this one, and I’ll make you the same offer. Go ride the ctran express during rush hour and document that you made the journey from Vancouver to PDX in 15 minutes and I’ll buy you a triple shot caffine drink of your choice. That is the basis of Jim’s critique. That Ctran makes that journey in 15 minutes flat, as they apparently advertise. Do you belive they do?

      And if you do happen to make it even in only 1 out of 10 tries, great. I’ll still buy you the coffee for your effort.

  • Bob Tiernan

    *v person:*

    I’ll make you the same offer. Go ride the ctran express during rush hour and document that you made the journey from Vancouver to PDX in 15 minutes

    *Bob T:*

    Why should I? I’m not making the claim, and didn’t even comment on it.

    *v person:*

    And if you do happen to make it even in only 1 out of 10 tries, great. I’ll still buy you the coffee for your effort.

    *Bob T:*

    I won’t sit down with anyone who defends the blowing up of Israeli ice cream
    parlors full of kids.

    Bob Tiernan
    Portland

    • v person

      a) I never defended any such thing and
      b) I can send you a gift certificate for a coffee drink

  • Bob Tiernan

    *v person:*

    a) I never defended any such thing

    *Bob T:*

    You have. So long as the “Big, bad Israelis” won’t give up 100%
    of the West Bank, everything is, well, “understandable” and they’ve
    asked for it. That’s how your kind sees it. Anyone can go back
    to an earlier thread on this and read your putrid arguments.

    *v person:*

    b) I can send you a gift certificate for a coffee drink

    *Bob T:*

    Don’t bother.

    Bob Tiernan
    Portland
    (Not head of any party)

    • v person

      “You have. So long as the “Big, bad Israelis” won’t give up 100%
      of the West Bank, everything is, well, “understandable” and they’ve
      asked for it.”

      Nope. I never wrote any such thing and don’t believe that. You can make up whatever you want about me. I can’t prevent you from lying. But I can point it out when you lie, and you just did.

      Yes, anyone can go back and read what I wrote. Maybe you should do so before you make an arse out of yourself again.

  • Bob Tiernan

    *v person:*

    Nope. I never wrote any such thing and don’t believe that. You can make up whatever you want about me. I can’t prevent you from lying. But I can point it out when you lie, and you just did.

    Yes, anyone can go back and read what I wrote. Maybe you should do so before you make an arse out of yourself again.

    *Bob T:*

    Anyone can go back to earlier threads on the Mid-east and see your views (they’ll have to read all
    of yours because you avoided acknowledging your nastier views until they were dragged out of you. In short, it was all about blaming Israel for the lack of a two state solution due to the non-starter demand that Israel give up 100% of the West Bank or an amount of land equal to that, and until they do that, well, anything goes. It’s that obvious.

    Bob Tiernan
    Portland

    • v person

      Let’s start with I never wrote or said that Israel should give up 100% of the West Bank. Then let’s add that I never said or even implied that I support “anything goes.” Those are both your misreading, either deliberately or otherwise, of my remarks. And so it is still a lie and will continue to be so the next time you write it.

      Word to the wise. Try and win an argument without putting words in the other person’s mouth and see how well you do. My hunch is not very well.

  • Bob Tiernan

    *v person:*

    Let’s start with I never wrote or said that Israel should give up 100% of the West Bank.

    *Bob T:*

    You just misquoted me again. Read it again. The whole thing.

    Game over.

    Bob Tiernan
    Portland

    • v person

      My hunch was pretty good.

    • v person

      Bob T: “You just misquoted me again. Read it again. The whole thing.”

      OK…the whole thing is below, verbatim:

      Bob T: “You have. So long as the “Big, bad Israelis” won’t give up 100%
      of the West Bank, everything is, well, “understandable” and they’ve
      asked for it.

      So now you still say I misquoted you? Reality check Bob. Its your exact words. Your problem is you can’t seem to stand by your own words.

  • fidelity

    Jim,

    How many people took the bus from Hillsboro to downtown Portland before the Blue Line was installed? You have to figure the potential ridership for a express service mass-transit option (either light rail or bus) is much higher than 1650. I’m not a fan of light-rail service, but the large number of middle-class individuals in Vancouver might contribute to a healthy ridership, after several years.

    According to the CRC 2005 Transit Conditions Report, 500 vehicles from Washington use MAX park-and-rides. Of course, 93% of those are single-occupancy vehicles – but this does demonstrate people will use mass-transit – especially if trips downtown were quicker (as opposed to 30-45 minute bus routes).

    Vancouver may not be apart of Oregon, but it’s certainly within the Community of Portland – therefore, they must share the burden of sh!tty Portland government.

  • Bob Tiernan

    *Fidelity:*

    According to the CRC 2005 Transit Conditions Report, 500 vehicles from Washington use MAX park-and-rides. Of course, 93% of those are single-occupancy vehicles – but this does demonstrate people will use mass-transit – especially if trips downtown were quicker (as opposed to 30-45 minute bus routes).

    *Bob T:*

    There’s a tendency among many who live in PDX’s outer circle places like Vancouver, Gresham, Hillsboro, etc to drive as close as they can to Portland’s core center and then park and jump on a bus or MAX. Not just to park in a park and ride close to home, but making a drive of a number of miles. To a survey taker on the other end of the commute, each ride is considered a car taken off the road. But a drive of 10 miles and MAX ride of one mile is hardly the trade-off the light rail advocates expected. Even when a commute on rail from Gresham or Hillsboro is easy to make, many still drive as close as they can to downtown before parking (many who arrive at the Rose Quarter on MAX actually park within a few MAX stops of the RQ and then ride MAX from two stations away).

    If C-Tran is actually keeping its 15-minute run into downtown Portland most of the time, then they need to make sure that commuters in Clark County know this for many potential riders may assume a long commute. Isn’t it more responsible to advertise the 15-20 minute run than to advocate more light rail at a quarter-billion $$$ per mile?

    Bob Tiernan
    Portland

  • Pingback: Blue Coaster()

  • Pingback: tickled()

  • Pingback: stream movies()

  • Pingback: water ionizer()

  • Pingback: kangen water()

  • Pingback: kangen()

  • Pingback: TV options for restaurants()

  • Pingback: car parking()

  • Pingback: laan nu og her()

  • Pingback: fue.mobi()

  • Pingback: alkaline water()

  • Pingback: bottled alkaline water()

  • Pingback: r r locksmiths ealing()

  • Pingback: plumber dallas()

  • Pingback: contoh variabel penelitian()

  • Pingback: pengertian hasil belajar()

  • Pingback: water ionizer pay plan loans()

  • Pingback: contoh variabel penelitian()

  • Pingback: pengertian penduduk()

  • Pingback: dampak kenakalan remaja()

  • Pingback: arti signifikan()

  • Pingback: manfaat keberagaman budaya()

  • Pingback: pengertian demonstrasi()

  • Pingback: dampak kenakalan remaja()

  • Pingback: dampak kenakalan remaja()

  • Pingback: pengertian siswa()

  • Pingback: manfaat keberagaman budaya()

  • Pingback: dampak kenakalan remaja()

  • Pingback: pengertian israf()

  • Pingback: signifikan adalah()

  • Pingback: contoh judul proposal()

  • Pingback: pengertian disiplin()

  • Pingback: pengertian israf()

  • Pingback: contoh wacana()

  • Pingback: dampak kenakalan remaja()

  • Pingback: pengertian penduduk()

  • Pingback: contoh limbah rumah tangga()

  • Pingback: pengertian eksistensi()

  • Pingback: tata cara sholat berjamaah()

  • Pingback: house blue()

  • Pingback: electricians tool belt()

  • Pingback: payment plan()

  • Pingback: nike blazers price()

  • Pingback: nike clothing outlet online()

  • Pingback: pay per day loan plans()

  • Pingback: pay plan()

  • Pingback: alkaline water()

  • Pingback: cheap car insurance()

  • Pingback: Arti Metode Penelitian Survey | webshop - best ways to make money()

  • Pingback: test()

  • Pingback: sender iherb til norge()

  • Pingback: iherb ln()

  • Pingback: iherb.com phone number()

  • Pingback: iherb colostrum()

  • Pingback: 1/2-Inch Drive Click Torque Wrench()

  • Pingback: 1/2-Inch Drive Click Torque Wrench()

Stay Tuned...

Stay up to date with the latest political news and commentary from Oregon Catalyst through daily email updates:

Prefer another subscription option? Subscribe to our RSS Feed, become a fan on Facebook, or follow us on Twitter.

Twitter Facebook

No Thanks (close this box)