Bama kept his enemy (Hilliary) “closer,” and this may be helpful to him in ’12. If Hilliary weren’t in his web, she could more easily bite at him. Her husband is probably just offstage trying to send in some secret agents to fester da bama. Funny, though, the former prez (who I actually liked as prez as he was checked by a GOP congress) seems to hurt who ever he pushes for in the years since leaving office. He sure did a number on the Dems in Florida this past election, when he tried to “encourage” Meeks out of the senatorial race so the “plastic cracker” Christ could be competitive with Rubio. Got to admit the American electorate ain’t so dull as they knew their old time snake oil salesman pretty well.
Gol-lee Sergeant (Clark), if’n that Comeback kidSnocker feller can come back an’ re-govern ‘ungovern-able’ Oregon fer a third term, why not Teflon Bubba Cartoon for US, egress his heart?
So it looks like Obama has been slipping slightly less fast than Bush slipped. Except the latter got a huge boost from 9/11, so had farther to fall.
Don’t count Obama out, is how I read this.
Interesting op ed in the Oregonian today about the current volatility of the electorate. The writer, a historian says we may be entering an electoral period with many wide swings as we seek a way out of a huge pile of new challenges (mounting deficits, rising inequality, free trade, rise of China, Latin American immigration, changing demographics of the nation) like in the era from the end of the Civil War up until the Progressive era of Teddy Roosevelt and Wilson. If true, then Obama may be a 1 termer, but then whoever follows him is also likely to meet the same fate as festering problems go unresolved until we find a new, happier medium. For now, the center appears unable to hold so we will swing around. Batten down your hatches matties.
Or…the economy manages to recover in time for the 2012 election and Obama becomes the Reagan of the left, riding prosperity into a landslide. Any outcome seems possible. And its all interesting if a bit unsettling.
Another possibility: Obama goes the way of Carter, and we find a new Reagan in 2012. A happy ending!
More like wishful thinking given the current crop of Republican leaders.
Obama does not look anything like Carter to me. Carter was at war with his own party, which cost him dearly when Kennedy went after him. The chattering class of liberal talking heads does criticize Obama for not being liberal enough, but most rank and file like him, think he is doing the right things in a tough climate, and there is no Kennedy out there to take him on. Plus, Carter caught the economy on the way down, not up, due to the oil shocks.
I think the saying is that history does not repeat itself but it sometimes rhymes.
My personal of-the-moment prediction, based on observable facts AND some hope: the economy will continue to recover, unemployment will work its way down to tolerable levels, we will be out of Iraq and on the way out of Afghanistan, the Boehner led house will bumble badly, he Tea Party nuts will nominate Palin, and Obama will win in a landslide, maybe taking the House back with him.
The likely alternative universe is insufficient recovery or double dip recession, deeper in the mud of the middle east and central asia, Obama bumbling and failing to deal with the new Congress well, and Romney or Huckabee or another nationally acceptable Republican as our next president.
I would bet on scenario 1, but would not give odds. Can’t see well enough around the next bend.
A little history lesson.
The unemployment rate in Carter’s fourth year was actually lower than in Reagan’s fourth year. The difference is that it had been much lower in the previous years of the Carter administration, so things were seen as getting worse, while it had been much higher in previous years of the Reagan administration, so things were seen as getting better.
We’re likely to have a scenario more like 1984 than 1980.
*Dean Apostle:* Progressive era of Teddy Roosevelt and Wilson.
*JK:* Amazing that you hold up a slimeball like Wilson as examples to follow:
Your idol, Wilson got us into world war I. These fools called it the war to end all wars.
After all those dead Americans, why did we ever listen to progressives again? Why do you hold him up as an example?
Your idol, Wilson also ESTABLISHED RACIAL SEGREGATION in Washington DC. Why does anyone admit to being progressive?
Your holding up Wilson as a model tells all we need to know about your depth of knowledge. (Or are you secretly wishing for a return to segregation and war?)
Next, you’ll be touting Hitler’s solving Germany’s unemployment problem and building modern highways.
It was not until the administration of President Woodrow Wilson, a southerner who had numerous southerners in his cabinet, that federal offices and workplaces were segregated, starting in 1913 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Washington,_D.C.)
Where in my post did I hold Wilson up as a model?
Sorry. But he is one of your fellow progressives.
I tend to hang with actual living, breathing people. I hold mixed views on Wilson. He did some good things and some bad things. on balance, maybe more bad than good. I liked T Roosevelt a lot more, though he also had some major issues, including racism, which lets face it, was a lot more acceptable back then. I liked FDR best of all, so if you want to accuse me of holding someone up (also flawed, but on balance positive) then stick FDR on me.
Who are your heroes Jim? You got any perfect people that float your odd boat?
>Don’t count Obama out, is how I read this.
Lol – Oh yeah – you guys are doing terrific!
Looks like Obama still has a higher approval rating than Bush did for most of his second term. So what’s this talk about a “meltdown”?
“The writer, a historian says we may be entering an electoral period with many wide swings as we seek a way out of a huge pile of new challenges”
The voters are swinging wildly between the two major parties because neither of them is offering credible solutions to our current serious problems. The time may be ripe for the emergence of a third — and maybe a fourth — party.
>we may be entering an electoral period with many wide swings
Gee ya think?
Personally I wish I could get paid for writing the obvious nut no biggie, the writer is right – partially.
I say partially because while we may see swings in which party is elected, the issue will remain the same – getting our spending under control to sustainable levels.
We have seen the last three election cycles hinge on that one thing – spending. Democrats won in 2006 largely on that issue, Obama won largely on that issue, and Republicans won last week on that issue.
So – will we see wild swings?
Maybe, but just in terms of party, not in terms of issues.
Whatever party is seen as credible on spending, or a check against the other parties excesses on that issue will be the victorious one.
>The time may be ripe for the emergence of a third — and maybe a fourth — party.
We just saw it – the Tea Party.
Make no mistake about it – if Republicans go back to their old ways of trying to go along to get along they will be thrown out in a moment.
Whether it is hypocritical or not of the Tea Party, spending is the issue and its pretty clear that in that regard they constitute as powerful a third party as we have seen in recent times.
Could we see another swing in 2012?
Possibly but unlikely as the electoral conditions that will be in place then make last weeks election look like a cake walk for Democrats by comparison.
However dont discount the Republicans – they are known as The Stupid Party for a reason.
If Republicans cave and give Obama more spending in order to make a deal they could very well end their majority in short order.
“the issue will remain the same – getting our spending under control to sustainable levels.”
That is THE issue? That’s it? If that is the only issue, then we should re-elect Clinton.
“We have seen the last three election cycles hinge on that one thing – spending.”
Right. The Iraq war? No one noticed. Katrina? Who was she? Privatize social security? Who was ever for that? Economic meltdown of the financial system? Yesterday’s news. No ned to regulate the market. Health care? Seems to be the same as before. Abortion? We can talk about that later. Its only murder when we decide to focus on that. Iran? Bombing them would cost too much. Global warming? Not happening, and if it is not our fault, and if it is, too expensive to deal with dude. Drive on.
So the one and only thing was….drum roll please….SPENDING. If politicians could just get SPENDING right then nothing else will matter. Its the SPENDING stupid.
“We just saw it – the Tea Party.”
The Tea Party is a third party? Fascinating. How many representatives and senators did they elect? The same number as the Green Party. 0.
But wait: Tea Party is fully embedded in the Republican Party. Therefore, it is not a 3rd or 4th party. It is a rising wing of an existing party, like the anti war movement and Civil Rights movements were for the Democrats back in the day. Feints to 3rd party formation but not really.
“its pretty clear that in that regard they constitute as powerful a third party as we have seen in recent times. ”
Only since they are not a 3rd party they can’t be as powerful a third party as we have seen. They could be a powerful movement that changes one of the 2 dominant parties, like anti-war and civil rights did to Democrats.
As for the hypocricy part on spending….its pretty evident when your chief complaints are (1) against a bailout brought forward by their own president (Bush) and complaint (2) is that Obama cut…yes cut Medicare spending by $50B a year. Can’t have that sort of spending cut now can we?
“However dont discount the Republicans – they are known as The Stupid Party for a reason.”
Yes, some of us are counting on another round of Joe Millers, Sharon Angles, Roy Bucks and Christine O’Donnels. And I am currently having Palin for President bumper stickers printed to help the cause and make a few bucks on the side.
>Right. The Iraq war? No one noticed. Katrina? Who was she? Privatize social security?
Would you get off this you blithering idiot.
No one ever said there were no other issues.
However the one consistent and major issue through the last three elections has been spending.
Stop being such a damn fool, no one for a moment ever claimed any election was just about one single issue.
Why in the world do you have to waste everyone’s time with your utter nonsense like this?
“However the one consistent and major issue through the last three elections has been spending.”
Correction Rupert. That is perhaps YOUR ONE consistent and major issue. Not a single poll suggests that this issue decided any of the past 3 elections, even accounting for the sturm un drang of the not really a tea party that is not really all that concerned about “spending,” just about Obama being the one doing the spending. If it were otherwise they would be calling for bringing the troops home and cheering the Medicare cuts Obama already did.
“Why in the world do you have to waste everyone’s time with your utter nonsense like this? ”
I don’t know. I feel this odd, irresistible urge to call BS on you, and you keep offering so much of it i end up wasting your time and mine. Maybe we should try counseling.
“We have seen the last three election cycles hinge on that one thing – spending. Democrats won in 2006 largely on that issue, Obama won largely on that issue”
Rupert, you really must inhabit an alternative universe. “Spending” was barely perceptible as an issue in 2006 and 2008. Republicans lost Congress in 2006 because of the Iraq war and other Bush debacles, and they lost the White House in 2008 because of the collapse of the economy.
>Rupert, you really must inhabit an alternative universe. “Spending” was barely perceptible as an issue in 2006 and 2008.
So you are saying that the Bush deficits, which equals a failure to control spending, were not an issue at all in the 08 and 06 elections?
Welcome to fantasy land my friends.
Sure Iraq was an issue in 06. It might have even been a major issue following behind the Abramoff/Foley scandels, which I notice you dont even mention. But it was hardly a central issue in 08 and 10 as well. However spending and increasing federal deficts were.
2008? Please. To argue that Obama did not make an issue of the spending under Bush is absurd.
I cannot believe you are actually going to sit there and say that TARP – which constituted spending, was not popular at all and really ticked people off was not a factor in the ’10 election?
You seriously are going to claim that people weren’t mad as hell at having to spend $1T to bail out AIG et. al?
You two have just entered fantasy land.
Here is a tinfoil hat and your magic wand for each of you.
Lets face it, its pretty easy to see what is going on here. you guys loved railing against all the deficit spending when Bush was in charge. Now that its your guy doing it, you want to act like its not even an issue and never was.
Well – its pretty easy to see through that. I think voters will as well.
The point here is yes, there were issues aside from spending in the last three elections, however none of those issues was as consistently present as spending was in all three.
Republicans learned that in 06 and 08
Democrats learned that in 10
You guys still haven’t learned that and probably never will.
And of course there is also the hilarious fact that even Nancy Pelosi cited the Bush deficits as one of the main things Democrats won on in 2006.
In fact she even vowed no new deficit spending when she assumed the speakership.
Wow – wonder why she would make such a major pledge on something that wasn’t even an issue?
Wonder why the press would give such big coverage to a pledge on something people didn’t even care about?
“You seriously are going to claim that people weren’t mad as hell at having to spend $1T to bail out AIG et. al?”
Funny. They were mad as hell about what didn’t happen? Yeah, I did notice that. The detail you and the other mad as hell people overlooked is that the cost of TARP is expected to be less than 1/10th of the 1 trillion you and they think it cost according to the latest from the CBO. So for those who were mad, such as yourself, I say…get mad at something worth getting mad about. TARP did not cost 1 trillion, or anywhere near it. You’re mad as hell over fiction, and I’m not going to take it anymore.
Once again Rupert, try real hard (I know you can do it if you want to) to separate “deficit spending” under Bush from “spending” in general. Not the same thing. Bush and the majority Republican Congress started with a surplus, then decided to squander it on unaffordable tax cuts, then started a very expensive cakewalk war for no good reason, then expanded Medicare without a means to pay for it. The result was a doubled debt. Yes, some of us pointed that out. There is “spending” and then there is “squandering.” Bush and the Republican Congress squandered.
“The point here is yes, there were issues aside from spending in the last three elections, however none of those issues was as consistently present as spending was in all three.”
Yeah. And the counter point is that you are still wrong. “Spending” was not a big issue in 06 or o8. Economic mismanagement was a big issue, but less an issue than the Iraq war in 06 by far. Economic catastrophe brought on by bank gambling was THE issue in 08, not “spending.”
In 2010 the overriding issue was the unemployment rate and the slow recovery from the Bush recession. Excess “spending” was the stated primary issue for a small minority of voters. Had unemployment dropped to say 7%, that argument would have gotten nowhere in any case.
“And of course there is also the hilarious fact that even Nancy Pelosi cited the Bush deficits as one of the main things Democrats won on in 2006.”
The hilarious fact is that you can’t seem to wrap your head around the difference between deficits and spending. You can spend a lot with no deficit or spend a little with a huge deficit. Think about it. At least try.
“In fact she even vowed no new deficit spending when she assumed the speakership.”
Now imagine this. The Democrats assume power in Congress and the presidency. Their main domestic policy is universal health insurance. They spend months crafting legislation, and each option is scored by the CBO for its impact on the deficit. Any alternative that expands the deficit is thrown in the ash can. in the end, they pass a bill that the CBO says will REDUCE the deficit by 130 B in the first 10 years, and 1.2 T as in TRILLION over the next 10 years.
Compare that with Bush and the Republicans Medicare Part D. About 50 billion this year, and projected at over 700B for the next 10 years. All deficit spending.
And you don’t even have to imagine it because i just described reality to you.
You see the difference there Rupert? Your team passes a new entitlement and puts it on the credit card. Mine pays for the entitlement and then some. Your “spent” resulted in deficit and my “spent” resulted in a projected surplus.
You guys haven’t learned anything about fiscal responsibility and by all signs, never will. But fool me once, fool me again, kick me, beat me, I’m still a fool for you baby. Tea Party rocks.
Approval ratings are like popularity contests. Show us the Bush spending versus Obama spending. That will show us something that matters. And it ain’t pretty.
There seems to be some debate about why Obama is unpopular. I have to say here that my prospective isnt focused only on Obama. I believe other actors are just as large a lightning rod.
Among other things Rupert mentioned spending. VP pointed to Bush mismanagement and “the war”. My own thought is that in the 2010 election we are dealing with some of all of the above. I will start with the Medicare prescription drug program.
Prescription drugs was a Bush campaign issue as was reaching across the isle. In this case Bush reached out to Ted Kennedy who wrote the legislation.
Its true that any Medicare legislation had no chance without the Kennedy blessing, however when Bush handed the keys to Kennedy what we got was a huge government program to solve what was a small number of seniors that were hammered by drug costs.
It’s true I objected to the cost, but I objected more to the bloated giant government program.
A second example is McCain Feingold when McCain reached across the isle. Not well remembered today, at the time the provisions muzzling independent advocacy were considered unconstitutional. That provision to silence small business however was necessary to garner Democrat support and the can was kicked down the road. Bush they thought would veto it. Then when the legislation went to GW’s desk he kicked the can to the Supreme Court.
Both Bush and Congress knew the provisions were unconstitutional as they kicked the can. The court applied the principal of “Judicial Restraint” which gives “great deference” that legislation is constitutional. The court never actually looked at the details of the provision.
My point here is that what is common to both of these is intrusive government by entrenched political establishment Governmentarians both Democrat and Republican. The farm bill is another example if one is needed.
As an aside I see that 6 years later the court did overturn the gag of the First Amendment rights of free speech. The immediate progressive screech was the court overturned 60 years of law. Really?
Progressives offered a different view. Lied us into war, the war is lost, tax cuts for the rich.
Which brings us to 2006 when Ron Saxton ran for governor. A factor in Saxton’s loss was the Republican / Conservative / down state voters that were fed up with choosing the lesser to two liberals.
On to 2008 and TARP. Yes part of the opposition was spending though the larger opposition was the bailouts. Just one more step in growing big intrusive government. “The simple unavoidable truth is that Bush and the GOP establishment were big government fiscal liberals. The Republican establishment offered an expansion of Big Government schemes that slowly destroyed the economy.”
Post 08 the administration simply accelerated government. $800 Billion stimulus, $400 Billion budget add ons. The health care take over. Unbending, steel rigid Democratic Party discipline in the face of public opposition.
Anyone who thinks the unemployment rate and the slow recovery was the overriding issue in 2010 is myopic. Overlooking the 8-ton arrogant all knowing government gorilla in DC.
Did anyone notice that this weekend Paul Krugman, the resident NYT white house spokesman, says the only way the U.S. will get its debt crisis under control is by the use of “death panels”?
Did anyone notice that after demonizing paper and plastic shopping bags Sen. Chuck Schumer now wants a federal investigation and ban of reusable grocery bags?
We did notice when 13-year-old Cody Alicea was ordered to remove the American flag from his bike. Hundreds of American Legion riders and others joined Cody for his ride to school, sporting American flags on their own bikes.
The current example of intrusive PC government is the TSA. The poster of the Nun being strip searched while the unknown person in a burka is escorted through. The ultimate poster I thought was the photograph of the young man, feet wide, arms out while being wanded and patted down. In his right hand he held his M16 as he waited to report to his security posting.
People are rebelling against the TSA and its intrusive, ineffective, nanny state PC dictates.
What’s your source that Ted Kennedy wrote Medicare Part D?
Not that Wikipedia is the end-all/be-all, but there is NO MENTION anywhere in their article on Medicare Part D about Ted Kennedy. So, I’d like to know what is the source of that information.
Rush Limbaugh told him. Or maybe Beck. Next question?
You mean Rush “Oxy Moron” Limbaugh and Glenn “I am not into child pornography, but wait, why am I even bringing this up?” Beck?
The legislative process was well known and discussed at the time in the Oregonian, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, Boston Globe, LA Times, NY Times. Just go take a look through the archives.
The celebrated Democratic Party acclaim of Kennedy and health care last year was quite real. To the extent that a politician can own an issue Kennedy totally owned health care. For the last 50 years Ted Kennedy was at the center of Medicare, HMO, and every other change. For example he beat back every Republican attempt to add means testing to part D. That’s just one example. No decision was made without his approval.
To now diminish Kennedy’s stature for political posturing is to diminish Kennedy’s record as a powerful Senator. Note I have made no judgment of Kennedy’s decisions for good or ill. Simply acknowledged the power he held.
I would however note that here we have an example of the entrenched establishment political power concentrated in the hands of one single Senator.
VP, throwing rocks at Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck, neither of which have anything to do with the discussion, is a cheep shot and you know it.
That’s a total dodge John. You were asked what your source is that Kennedy wrote Medicare Part D. It looks like you just made it up, then shifted to health care, which kennedy also did not write because he was dead.
You then turn the question of your source around as an attack on Kennedy? Shame on you. You get the dissembler award of the day.
And what do you mean I threw rocks? I suggested 2 logical sources for your claim. And based on your dodge, I think I was probably right.
“Did anyone notice that this weekend Paul Krugman, the resident NYT white house spokesman, says the only way the U.S. will get its debt crisis under control is by the use of “death panels”?”
No. No one noticed because he made no such suggestion. Why do you make this stuff up? What is the point?
VP, what others call “lying”, righties call “talking” or “writing”.
VP the easy first. You said Paul Krugman didn’t say we needed death panels. > *No one noticed because he made no such suggestion. Why do you make this stuff up?*
Network: . ABC
Program: This Week
Host: ….. Christiane Amanpour
Amanpour: “But what is going to happen? I mean, are you clear on where a compromise is going to be? It’s got to be discussed before the end of the year, no?”
Paul Krugman: *Quote* No. Some years down the pike, we’re going to get the real solution, which is going to be _a combination of death panels and sales taxes._ It’s going to be that we’re actually going to take Medicare under control, and we’re going to have to get some additional revenue, probably from a VAT. But it’s not going to happen now. *Unquote*
To be fair several days later in his blog, Krugman said that when he said what he said he didn’t mean what he said. So I take it that just because he called them…death panels, he didn’t really mean death panels. He must have meant “life panels”.
Even accounting for his being facetious, Krugman did not say or suggest we NEED “death panels.” He implied, in using that term, that the cost control measures in the health care bill will save us money. 1.3 trillion over the next 20 years according to the CBO projection.
Of course that is only if your side fails to dismantle the bill and the savings.
Given that I often disagreed with Ted Kennedy’s political positions I find it odd that it falls to me to defend Kennedy’s legislative record. Through the last fifty years Kennedy was one of, if not the master of, medical legislation. Just a brief list is below.
1965 Medicare, cosponsor and chief proponent Edward M Kennedy
1971 National Cancer Act, author Edward M Kennedy
1973 HMO Act, author Edward M Kennedy
1978 HMO law amendments, author Edward M Kennedy
1985 COBRA Legislation, author Edward M Kennedy
1996, HIPAA Legislation Kennedy / Kassebaum
1997 Opposed Medicare means-testing, Edward M Kennedy
2001 Patients’ Bill of Rights, author Edward M Kennedy
2003 Medicare prescription drug benefit co-author Edward M Kennedy Detail below
2005 Negotiating Medicare drug bulk purchases author Edward M Kennedy (Government monopsony)
2007 Negotiated Rx prices for Medicare part D author Edward M Kennedy (Government monopsony)
2007 SCHIP expansion cosponsor Edward M Kennedy
2008 Edward M Kennedy diagnosed with cancer
2008 Bar means-testing Medicare Part D Edward M Kennedy
Dec 2008 Ted Kennedy Drops Judiciary Post to Focus on Healthcare legislation.
2009 Affordable Health Choices Act author Edward M Kennedy
2009 National Health Service Corps author Edward M Kennedy
2009 Kennedy’s Affordable Health Choices Act scored by CBO
August, 2009 Kennedy scrummed to cancer.
Part D —
2001 Kennedy opposes part D due to government purchased private insurance plans and means testing a drug benefit.
2003 Kennedy structured the senate bill to exclude both government purchased private insurance plans and means testing a drug benefit. Kennedy was admit on these two points. After debate and cloture Kennedy voted:
Senate part D, Kennedy Aye
The bill then went to conference committee where the House government purchased private insurance was adopted. As a result Kennedy vocally opposed the conference committee report. On the vote:
Conference committee part D report, Kennedy Nay.
That vote was held open for hours as the Republican leadership twisted Republican arms to vote yes. Ultimately Kennedy lost on that vote which was highly unusual.
VP > *It looks like you just made it up, then shifted to health care, which kennedy (sic) also did not write because he was dead.*
Really? Imagine that. It must have been a ghost which Wall Street Journal that “As chairman of the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee, I expect to lead a very full agenda in the next Congress, including working with President Obama to guarantee affordable health care, at long last, for every American,”
On the issues
Wall Street Journal
US Senate legislation and records
VP What is your source that Kennedy did not write the Affordable Health Choices Act because he was dead?
My “source” is that he was dead before it was written and passed. There was a funeral and everything. He chaired a committee that passed a bill, but was absent during the writing because he was sick. And in any case it was the bill out of the Baucus committee that became the basis for the law, not the bill out of Kennedy’s committee. The only role he had was as inspiration for others.
On Medicare Part D, so now you are saying Kennedy voted against the bill he wrote? That is strange.
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