Lars Larson on Are Schools Breeding Bullies?

I honestly think that America’s schools are in the business of breeding bullies. I don’t think they are doing it knowingly. But, they certainly are doing it. They are telling kids, “Don’t defend yourself.” If a bully goes out on the playground and he hits another kid, the kid is not allowed to hit back. The kid has been told by the school that, “If you hit back, you’ll have a punishment just as severe as the bully.”

The message that sends to the bully is, “You want to get some attention?” Which is probably what bullies mostly want to get. “Go hit the kid. If he hits you back, he gets punished just as badly as you do and you get a lot of attention””adverse attention””but attention all the same.” It teaches the kid on the playground”””do not defend yourself”.

That means the bully has all the control. It also means that adult rules are absolutely irrational. To deny somebody the right of self-defense, that’s denying them their most basic human right

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  • CRAWDUDE

    They are breeding punks, whether they defend themselves or not. These kids fear no reprisal for their actions, no personal responsibility, they are taught it’s always someone elses fault.

    You’ll always have bullies and we always have but breeding a generation of punks, well that’s a new twist only liberal school/state administrations and the NEA could have managed.

    • Somewhat sensible Carl

      Hey Dude.

      This is an incredibly complicated deal. Which is what drives me nuts about any talk radio and forums like this. Everyone thinks that there is a simple solution. They usually start their sentences with “just”.

      It’s a systems issue. School Boards are loath to institute any program that has a provable outcome, since they don’t seem to understand the data. Most think the earth is 6000 years old.

      In any event, there are laws that prevent effective action by those that know what to do and how to do it. Parents would sue the school district – and win – or more likely they would settle out of court, since it costs the district an arm and a leg to litigate even the most ridiculous and spurious lawsuit, and laugh their way to the bank. Consequently, we need to change some laws.

      MOST – not all but most – of the kids I knew that were bullies had random violence as part of their parents disciplinary repertoire, although it’s a stretch to call it a “repertoire”. So the statement blaming the state for intervening, well, er, ah, never mind.

      There have been systems and interventions that have proven effectiveness that will eliminate 80+% of the bullying. They need to be systemic, coordinated and consistent throughout a school. It costs money to implement as does any system. (Sorry.) But once they are in place they require less money and staff time. (The good news.) The University of Oregon has done a ton of great research, at taxpayer expense, and it mostly sits on a shelf.

      For those who they are not able to reach, they need to be shipped to Texas. Just joking. But not. The state used to do just that with kids. Hey don’t laugh. It worked. Except for increases in crime in Texas.

      Finally, the administrations that I am familiar with are more conservative than liberal. Just because all you have is a cognitive bias, doesn’t mean everything is a nail.

      Happy Holiday. (He, He.)

      • CRAWDUDE

        Short, semi-brief comments only Carl, now I have a headache 😉

        • ShortStephen

          Carl is misguided, but well meaning. (Is that short enuf?)

  • Anonymous

    My son was a corrections officer in a facility that had under 18 kids who had committed crimes to be charged as an adult. This was not in Oregon. He said he would rather be around violent adults than these kids because, he said “they just don’t care”

    How far are we as responsible adults going to let this go on?

  • CLUELESS EMMA

    Aha, but isn’t that the direct result of anti-war, pro-Marxist, humanistic education and Pinko “let’s just talk about it” denial?

    My son had run-ins with bullies in Arizona a few years ago. I encouraged him to go to a teacher, walk away, use humor, etc. His teachers told me he was playing a game of “tag” with the boys and laughing. I told them he was scared and humiliated, but tried to diffuse the situation with humor. We visited the principal, who said he’d keep an eye out. I told my son that next time someone hit him, he needed to swing and not stop swinging until an adult came to the scene. He needed to stand up for himself if no one else would.

    When he returned home from school with a black eye and swollen jaw after being jumped in the locker room after a basketball game, I was livid. I found the kid who did it, scared him, went directly to the principal and told him what I’d done because he hadn’t done his job–here had been no adult supervision in the locker room, and we’d already reported what these other kids were doing.

    Long story short, my son was suspended and kicked off the basketball team because he pushed back in self defense. Due to privacy laws, we never found out if any justice was meted out to the offending party.

    I thoroughly agree with you, Lars. We are breeding a nation of bullies and wimps, when we need to be raising men.

  • carol

    Talk about denial of responsibility, bullies were bred long before they ever started school. Why are we blaming shools fot the lessons that should be taught at home?

    • CRAWDUDE

      I think you’re wrong Carol, the bullies are like that because they do not fear any ramifications from their actions, that comes from getting away wth murder both at home and school. A good ass kicking would fix most of them if they didn’t know that they could call the state and get their parents in trouble.

      We take the ability away from the parents to discipline their children then we blame them for raising wussified punks? When we allow the whippuns’ to begin we’ll see the punks start disappearun!

      • dean

        The amount of over generalization that Lars throws out there and that people take seriously amazes me. What is the basis for his post in the first place? Does he have some evidence that our schools are overrun with bullies? That rules have changed in how schools deal with bullies?

        My son recenly completed K-8 and 4 years of high school in Portland. He managed to get through it all getting smacked on teh playground only once, an incident when, as we used to say in Chicago, he was “talking when he should have been listening.”

        In the “good old days,” I was bullied fequently. And I fought back, sometimes successfully, other times not so much. My old school dad had taught me to fight at the drop of a hat or a bad look, and it was real bad advice. As the saying goes, and eye for an eye and everyone ends up blind.

        I honestly think Lars is full of it.

      • carol

        Ah-h-h Dude, you’re dreamin’, most of the bullies are reared in homes where no-one is tuned in to the child enuff to care. Younguns go to school sleepy eyed, uncombed, unfed, with dirty clothes. I come from a family of teachers, all of whom are thankful not to be teaching in today’s world where having, and getting STUFF is all important. There is no way that a teacher can teach ‘caring’ about anything, to a child who doesn’t know what it is to care.

      • carol

        On re-reading your thread, I remembered my daughter telling about an experience that she had with her 12 year old son. While they were in the midst of a screaming, irresistible force meets immovable object argument, he threated to call 911. When she told him to go ahead and call he did. The police laughed at him.

        • CRAWDUDE

          Unfortunately they don’t always just laugh at the kid in this day and age. That would be an example of the children feeling that they are not to be held accountable………and they don’t learn that at home. Luckily in this case the police didn’t fall for it but had it been a bleeding heart dispatcher the result could’ve been different.

          As for you first post about where the bullies are raised, you’re probably right. How can kids be expected to care if they don’t se an example of it at home. I believe many rich, spoiled kids end up the same way, my goodness……………..kids are living with their parents well into their 30’s without ever having a meaningful job.

          It’s almost heartbreaking trying to imagine how this country will be in a few generations.

  • Jerry

    As Rush so well puts it, it is the chickification of our society and it is WRONG.

    • carol

      Jerry, you blame who you want, I’ll put the blame where I want. If you mean chickenification like our draft-dodging administration, well, maybe. I put the blame on the advertising on TV.

      From little kids toys and junk food, to the wish list for a new Honda, Chevy, Beemer, or to every kiss begins with K, drawing in some fool guy wanting to spread his tail-feathers to impress his ‘woman’, we are driven to buy,buy,buy. Both parents are working to pay for the STUFF. How much in your household do you really need, but you will defend your right to own it, and of course it’s none of my business!! I will say it before you do, ’cause it’s not. I am saying that we are a nation of consumers, and as long as we keep buying , the economy will remain afloat.

      But ask yourself what happens if not enuff people have jobs to continue buying. I have an idea that when the ‘chickens’ that you refer to, find out that you have something they want, they will no longer seem so cowardly, knocking on your door.

      • Sybella

        What does that have to do with bullies? It’s your responsibility as a parent to educate your children and not just buy them all those things. Maybe if they want them bad enough, you should give them the responsibility of earning the money to buy it. They would be a lot more appreciative if they really had to find out where those things come from. Advertising is only a come on, you are the one ultimately responsible for what your children have.

        • carol

          Absolutely! I agree with you %100, unfortunately, not everyone responds in that fashion. Have you never, if you have children, given in to something that he/she wanted terribly because it was seen on TV or because ‘everyone else’ had it. If you have been able to withstand a child’s pleading, congratulations. My girls weren’t allowed to watch much TV when they were young, and my response to every one else does, was the old saw, “If they all jumped off a cliff—“.

          I am sure that by the way you responded, that you drive an old reliable ‘beater’, congratulations on that as well. I drive a car ’til it’s dead, and then I only bought one brand new once, when my car was wrecked, and I had to have a car. I like to buy when I don’t need it too badly, and I can walk away. I also make it a policy not to buy what I see/hear advertised on TV. I am childish that way.

          • Sybella

            Actually my old beater was the only brand new car I have ever had in my life. I wanted it and made payments to myself until I had enough to buy it. I could have made payments, but then I didn’t get to be financially stable by doing things like that. I do have children, they did rarely get what they wanted without earning it. Actually it’s easy to withstand the pleadings. Reason, when it’s in the childs best interest you are still the boss.

            You are correct, many, many people do not respond like that. As a result our children are spoiled, have no conception of responsibility and are protected from life until even if they aren’t one of the bullys, they don’t know how to take care of themselves.

            Because they are treated as children even when they should be treated as young adults, they are childish and demanding.

          • Sybella

            Sorry all kids aren’t childish and demanding, but so many are, I tend to group them together

          • carol

            Whether they are rich and neglected, or poor and neglected, the key word here is neglected, not enuff discipline, OR love, not enuff attention, positive or negative, and when a child reaches for attention, he may discover that negative attention is more easily achieved.

            Mom and Dad are too busy with their things, we all have things, but I have learned to only buy what I can pay for when, or soon after, I make the purchase. And further more, I have thought over and over, how I will manage if, and when I need to manage w/out those things. I am a child of the Depression, and it is for sure, such a thing can happen again. Especially when the national debt equals many thousands of dollars for each and every person in the US. Personal debt has become a way of life, for too many people, encouraged by the lenders. What are people looking for when they MUST have the latest toy?

          • CRAWDUDE

            So what is the solution? In attentive parents will continue to have kids, people who can’t afford them will contunue to, etc….

            Is there a solution or is all we can hope for is that we’re not around when these kids get older? When they want those of us who have prepared for retirement to support their slothful and inproductive lives?

            Anyone got an answer to that one? You can’t make the parents attentive or caring if they are selfish , spoiled adults themselves. Having the schools try to shape these kids to their form of thinking and value system has been a dismal failure…………..

            Is there an actual answer to this or just a lot of ” someone should do something ” statements?

            I think many would benefit from a good old fashioned spanking when they act up but society says no. Time outs have proven to be usesless and the kids snicker about them.

          • Sybella

            Truthfully, I’m not sure there is a solution. We have parents having children and the parents don’t have a clue. Kind of the blind leading the blind. I remember when I was raising mine, Dr. Spock,Sprok, whatever in the heck his name was wrote the bible on rearing children. ‘ Let them express themselves.’ Well they are and I don’t know the answer, the only one I have is it should have been stopped when it was starting. It’s kind of like a wild animal that was kept in captivity it’s entire life. Turn it loose and it dies.

            I agree with spanking, not beating, but spanking. Kids like knowing where the line is. They might not like it and will push it when they can, but they have assurance with that line. Now they have no line, no assurance. Truthfully, they are lost in the wilderness. I don’t have an answer.

          • Jerry

            Kids are spoiled today, for sure. I agree with you there.
            Hope yours are not.
            I agree with you that TV is bad. You should not allow your kids to watch it.
            Our adminstration is trying to control loonies who want to kill us. This is not a bad thing.
            Consumers need to take responsibility for what they buy.
            You seem angry for no reason. I agree with all you said.
            Hope you have a Merry Christmas.

          • carol

            Aha, now I see, I didn’t understand before, I thought they were draft-dodgers, and they were saving themselves for a war that is important. Sorry, I’m a little dense, but I don’t think that we have enough men in the field, we need a draft. The citizens at home ARE DEFINETLY, not making enough sacrifice, we need gas rationing, to help them understand that this is a real war. Meat was also rationed during WWII, and we even saved bacon grease, for God’s sake, we knew there was a war. If people realised, thru suffering, how important this one is, maybe they’d stop the stupid protesting.

            Draft some of the school-yard bullies, take away the extra gas, make the little ones walk to school. Absolutely no more plastic for gizmos of ANY kind, plastic is petroleum, and gas is rationed. I bet that would stiffen our collective spines as a nation, and make us realise how important this war is. We are gonna be over there for a long, long time, let’s show ’em what Amuricans are made of, by God

  • carol

    A child can be raised to be a productive adult without the parent ever laying ahand on him/her. That said, I’ll admit that I didn’t have that much patience. I was raised with respect for a peach switch, and mine knew what a mulberry switch was. They also picked berries, beans, cukes, and worked on our farm for their dad. The grandkids were raised the same.

    Now that you mention Spock, I can shift some of the blame to him, and off TV. He had a lot of common sense ideas, but not many on discipline as far as I am concerned. Another thing that annoys me is hearing the constant ‘Good Job!!’, for next to nothing. OK, I quit, ’nuff said, I still have pies to bake. Merry Christmas, all.

    • dean

      Merry Christmas Carol, and to all a good night.

      • CRAWDUDE

        Merry Christmas to everyone 🙂

      • carol

        Merry Christmas Dean, you musta just tuned in on this one.

  • mark marxer

    here is another bully and there is also one at 9100 mt rainier dr vancouver, wa
    Oregon Anti-immigrant Activist Arrested for Child Sex Abuse

    An Oregon anti-immigrant activist and blogger is being held on five counts of using a child in a display of sexually explicit conduct, two counts of sex abuse and two counts of hindering prosecution.
    https://www.polksheriff.net/inmates/ICUP0006.JPG

    According to a news report appearing in the Salem Statesman Journal yesterday, Bruce Elliot Benkle, a barber at the Fairview Barbershop in Dalles, was arrested last month on a range of sex abuse charges he is suspected of committing on both male and female children. He is currently lodged in the Polk County Jail with bail set at $200,000. Bruce Benkle, a well known anti-immigrant activist frequently seen holding signs and taking photos for Oregonians for Immigration Reform at thier events, is a blogger well known among Oregon’s top anti-immigrant weblogs. Benkle, who goes by “Bruce the Barber” among other pseudonyms, is often seen commenting on Daniel’s Political Musings, one of Oregon’s most active anti-immigrant blogs. He is also seen regularly posting comments on message boards of news sites in the Marion County area and elsewhere.

    https://bp0.blogger.com/_1L–vnaYpFg/RfQzHaCN0cI/AAAAAAAAAAk/S1MOIY4xy5Y/s1600/DSCF3734.jpg

    Yesterday’s story caught our attention as there were similarities between a mugshot of Benkle and a photo (on the left) of anti-immigrant blogger “Bruce the Barber”. It wasn’t until reviewing an entry appearing at Daniel’s Political Musings from last March that the photo along with another were in fact that of Bruce Benkle and the Vice President of Oregonians for Immigration Reform and Vice Chairman of the Marion County Republican Party, Rick Hickey, at an OFIR-Oregon Minuteman rally. In the photos, the two are shown holding signs with other OFIR activists outside the office of the Service Employees International Union Local 503 during an anti-immigrant rally in downtown Portland. Benkle later commented on the entry identifying himself in the photo with Hickey. Benkle has a long history of threatening and intimidating behavior, and racist commentary. Among his racist commentary, one in particular shows him boasting on Daniel’s Political Musings of a website he enjoys with cartoons he says are “a little racist”. “If you want to e-mail me”, Benkle said “I will show you a website with a lot of funny cartoons about Mexicans and others, and NO they are not racist….well maybe a little” Following the comment he left his signature “old time barber” email address that he often posts along with his full name on other internet sites. As a close ally of the leadership at Oregonians for Immigration Reform, the identification of Bruce Benkle’s enjoyment of promoting racist material comes on the heals of a report released last week by the Southern Poverty Law Center showing among other things white supremacists among the ranks of the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), a group that is directly linked on OFIR’s website. According to the Polk County Sheriff’s office, they have concerns that there may be many more victims of Benkle, as he used the barber shop in Dalles to perpetrate many of the sex crimes. In a KATU News report, Polk county prosecutor Tim Park said that “every time we talk to one [victim], it turned up one or two more, and it’s kind of in a domino effect”. Police are asking parents whose children may have had any unsupervised contact with Benkle to contact them immediately.

    • CRAWDUDE

      This has what to do with the discission at hand besides trying to change the subject?

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