Are Ron Paul supporters sabotaging the GOP?

by Davis Dyer

Are followers of Ron Paul sabotaging the Republican Party?

Those who are disinclined to support Ron Paul tend to attach a variety of more or less derisive appellations — “Paulbots”, “Paul-ers”, “Paulinistas”, or “Paulistinians” to cite a few — to those who do support him and/or his Campaign for Liberty (C4L). The Oregon C4L chapter has been a component of the Tea Party movement from its inception in 2009 (although the web site appears to be devoid of activity since 2010) and a flood of Paul supporters have expanded the ranks of Oregon Republican PCPs, including here in Marion County.

Although Ron Paul, himself, had less of an impact on this year’s Republican presidential sweepstakes than he did in 2008 and he has all but abandoned his quest for the nomination, his loyal following shows no sign of backing off. Instead, they have turned their attention to the state conventions where the Republican Party selects delegates to the national convention. To describe their campaign to elevate Ron Paul to be the nominee of the Republican Party for president as anything less than insanity is to be too charitable. The campaign rests on so many false premises and readings of the rules that to avoid pointing them out does a disservice to them and the party.

Most of the misunderstanding centers around the RNC’s Rule 38 and the nature of binding delegates. The rule states, at least in relevant part (in other words, I don’t know if this is the entire rule): “No delegate or alternate delegate shall be bound by any attempt of any state or Congressional district to impose the unit rule.” To confound matters even further, in 2008, one identified as legal counsel to the convention stated, “[The] RNC does not recognize a state’s binding of national delegates, but considers each delegate a free agent who can vote for whoever [sic] they choose.”

Will Ron Paul supporters violate their pledge to Mitt Romney?

While this may come as a shock to those who are trying to read into the rule something that isn’t there, a plain reading of the rule reveals that it says nothing about requiring delegates to vote for the candidate to whom they are pledged. Yes, the rule could have used a less-ambiguous or loaded (at least in the current context) term than “bound”, but, hey, this rule has been on the books since 1964! The rule quite obviously is speaking to “the unit rule”, stating that the RNC will not permit any state delegation to force all of its members to cast their votes under the pretense of such a rule. “What is the unit rule?” you may ask. Who cares? No state is imposing anything that could be interpreted as a “unit rule” on its delegation. Therefore, even if Paul fanatics were successful in compelling the RNC to enforce Rule 38, they still would not be legally released from the pledges they made at the state or Congressional district conventions.

What then to make of the statement by the RNC legal counsel? The statement was made in the context of a dispute at the 2008 convention in Minneapolis when a delegate from Utah, who was pledged to McCain, cast his vote instead for Romney. To put it a bit more bluntly, the counsel essentially said, “The RNC couldn’t care less about the incident; the delegate is under the authority of the URP, not the RNC. Whatever sanctions he faces will come from them.” By the way, were that to happen in the Oregon delegation, such a violation of one’s pledge would result in a $10,000 fine levied by the State of Oregon for the crime of false swearing.

Delegates to the national convention attend for us

Aside from the above grave flaws in their case against the RNC, the Paul supporters flagrantly misrepresent what it means to have the privilege to attend the national convention as a voting delegate. To be a delegate is to act on behalf of someone other than oneself. To characterize any delegate, as did the so-called RNC legal counsel above, as a “free agent” is absolutely wrong. The 28 Oregon delegates convening in Tampa at the end of August are there as agents of the more than 280,000 Republican voters who cast ballots this last May. More than 70% of those voters (204,176) chose Mitt Romney. While in all other business to come before the convention the delegates are more or less on their own, only upon dispatch of their vote for the candidate to whom they themselves made their pledge are they finally free to “vote their conscience”.

A couple of notes about the lawsuit filed recently by the group “Lawyers for Ron Paul”. The suit was filed in the Federal District Court for the Central District of California. The lawyers chose this court simply because they are qualified to practice law in California. Yet none of the plaintiffs who have any standing to bring suit are residents of California. Oops! In addition, they are bringing suit under federal election and voting rights laws, particularly Title 42 §§ 1971 and 1984. Yet, because the RNC is a private organization, its rules for selecting officers and delegates for the purpose of conducting its business are not subject to federal laws. Title 42 can only be brought to bear against the elections that were conducted under the auspices of the states in which they were held; but in that case, neither the RNC nor the state Republican parties are legitimate defendants, but rather the state elections divisions. Oops and oops!

What shall we make of all this? I’m sure that some of these people sincerely believe that Ron Paul is the best candidate. Fortunately — or unfortunately — the vast majority of Republican voters across the nation beg to differ. Nationally, Mr. Paul garnered less than 10% of the votes cast in all the primaries and caucuses this year. That is less than what Newt Gingrich received. He did not win one state, although his followers did manage to wrest a majority of delegates from the states of Maine and Iowa whose caucuses were non-binding, i.e. the selection of delegates at the state conventions did not have to align to the number of votes cast in the earlier caucuses (they were open to any and all comers, anyway, so who really cared?).

His supporters try to pump up Paul’s support among younger voters, non-affiliated voters, and even Democrats. To no avail since Republican voters turned him down cold. If they believe that by their refusal to vote for Romney they would devastate Republican efforts to defeat Obama, just what do they think would result if even just half of those who rejected Mr. Paul in the primaries refused to vote for him in November?

Republican voters overwhelmingly believe that Mitt Romney will be our 45thpresident. No machinations, no manipulation of party rules, and no lawsuits are going to change that evaluation. Guerrilla tactics that only seek to undermine the strength and enthusiasm of the party have no place in our strategy to win back the country. There is too much at stake this time.

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  • Anynomous

    You have mentioned that RNC is not subjected to any federal law and that the lawyers in California has no case. In the same sense, the Romney bound delegates is not subjected to the any fines if they were to vote for Paul.

  • “To describe their campaign to elevate Ron Paul to be the nominee of the Republican Party for president as anything less than insanity is to be too charitable.”

    They aren’t trying to get Ron Paul nominated although, I bet they’d appreciate that ends. They are trying to change the GOP back to it’s conservative roots. They want their voiced heard and issues addressed.

  • z

    Romney is not going to save you… Rand Paul 2014

    • D. L. Partyka

      Rand Paul is a whole other creature. He has proven he is NOT his father and even closer to Romney than his roots.

      • joe

        Rand pissed me off, but dont sell him short yet. We still have a shot at taking over everything & picking Romneys replacement in 2016.

    • By saying 2014 are you implying the winner of the 2012 election will be impeached? I like Rand Paul. I respect his compromises as strategic.

  • hmmm

    “in other words I don’t know if this is the entire rule”……. so why are you trying to quote it/use it. After I read that, I didn’t even finish the article. Completely destroyed any ethos or logic in your argument.

  • What good has the GOP done for the US lately?
    Maybe the GOP needs to change.
    Maybe the GOP could stand for what it says it stands for instead of being riddled with greedy,self serving Washington/big bank sell outs.
    Soumds like a job for Ron Paul!!!!!

    • Pat in the hat

      I couldn’t have said it myself.

  • White house/World Bank policy can only be defeated by Ron Paul.
    Romney=Obama..practically the same flavor of traitor.

  • Jason

    The author’s article states that Party Rules are to be ignored, which is illegal.

    Why set up Party Rules? Party Rules are a contract to regulate conduct and ensure fairness in the event of a 50/50 split in the party. While this author argues that Party Rules (contracts) do not have any merit when there is a 51% majority overruling a 49% minority in selecting a candidate, that is simply not the case. Party Rules are actually legally binding on the Party in question, be it Democrat or Republican, as these Party Rules are contracts within the party to ensure fairness in the nomination process. Contracts are reviewable by the courts… especially contracts regarding who voters choose as President of the United States?

  • There really is no limit to the Paulbot cult. Like the 3rd Reich and democratic centralism, the thoughts or needs or representation of the people is a meaningless exercise to these kool-aid drinking morons. Few dispise the establishment GOP more than I do. But to take one set of political idiots and replace them with what amounts to a political cult, bent on national suicide? No thanks. “Republican voters overwhelmingly believe that Mitt Romney will be our 45thpresident. No machinations, no manipulation of party rules, and no lawsuits are going to change that evaluation. Guerrilla tactics that only seek to undermine the strength and enthusiasm of the party have no place in our strategy to win back the country. There is too much at stake this time.” Once you figure out that these morons are as Republican as my Spaniel, everything else falls into place.

    • D. L. Partyka

      There are Republicans that back Ron Paul. However, There are also Democrats, Independents, Libertarians,and Unaffiliated That Back Ron Paul. NAME ONE OTHER CANDIDATE who can claim such loyalty. Fact is Ron Paul may not need the Republican Party at all to win the White House.
      Dr. Ron Paul 2012

      • McDowell2

        Hitler in the 1930’s.

        • D. L. Partyka

          He’s not running, stay on topic and answer the question Oh that’s right you can’t …..nevermind.

          • McDowell2

            Great interview w. your demigod here: anyclip.com/movies/bruno/ron-paul-interview/

          • That was a very funny video.

            Let’s examine your use of the term “demigod” for a moment. You are simply trying to use a negative term to acknowledge the fact Ron Paul has a message that is very attractive to wide range of people. If you don’t like his popularity, perhaps you need to ask yourself why your own views do not attract such a following.

          • McDowell2

            Let’s examine your cult like attraction to a man whose message has limited to appeal to what the man himself calls a “small (predominantly white, Christian )irate minority.” He looked really bad in that last video he made. He already looks like a corpse in the picture above.If he were to drop down dead tomorrow you and you’re fellow crypto white nationalists would either commit suicide or prop up his dead carcass in Tampa and attempt to nominate him anyway.

          • I agree that there is an obvious disconnect between Paul’s appearance / public speaking skills and his strong following, but by pointing this out, you are essentially contradicting your description of this phenomenon as a “cult like attraction” Paul lacks the skill sets to lead a cult which include an attractive appearance, magnetic personality, and often youthful vitality. For you to have any credibility to the fine folks who read these comments of ours, you have to admit that something bigger is behind his numbers.

            If there is a cult-like phenomenon at all here, it is the attractiveness of his message and its ideas. There is no hypnotic demigod leading the ignorant here, rather the Republican Liberty Caucus is driven by a well read group that has already been more influenced by the writings of Ludwig von Mises and Friedrich Hayek than anything Ron Paul has done or said. The rise of libertarianism in American politics is a rather easy trend to observe.

            When you talk about Paul’s following as predominantly white, what you are really describing is the GOP itself. Look at any picture of the massive crowds he attracts and you will see a higher rate of minorities than a traditional conservative event, because his message has broad appeal beyond the limited parameters of Republican Party demographics.

          • valley person

            Followers of Paul do behave a bit like a cult, you have to admit. Paul isn’t charismatic or physically attractive, but he presents “authenticity” in a way most politicians can’t do because most don’t actually believe what is coming out of their mouths. Paul, if nothing else, does believe himself. That is half the battle.

            The other half is that he presents a set of ideas that, while half baked economics, offer a very simple solution to complex problems. Just let people be free. Wow. I mean who can argue with it? Never mind that we had his world more or less in the 19th and early 20th centuries, and for good reasons free people modified free market capitalism. We replaced a system with little oversight and no safety net with the modern regulatory welfare state because the freer system fell on its face once too often and couldn’t get back up.

          • Abc … easy as 123

            Your analysis relies far too much on apples and oranges comparisons (Ex: if you think the 19th century’s economy bears any relationship to the present you need to go outside and get some fresh air) and idealistic views of history (Ex: if you were to dig more deeply into history, you would quickly realize that the regulatory state was in large part created by the very miscreants it purported to combat in order to make the public believe something had been done about them).

          • valley person

            I don’t think 19th century economics bears much relationship to the present. That was my point. Ron Paul and his supporters want to take us back to a 19th century regulatory and financial framework, not me.

            Yes, regulations often benefit the regulated. Banking regs, particularly FDIC, kept banks in business for decades by preventing them from doing stupid things. Then we loosened the regs up at the bankers request, they went crazy with taking on risk, and pop went the bubble. Take more regs away, like Paul wants to do, and we can watch the whole economic edifice fall apart.

          • Abc … easy as 123

            Ideas don’t become less valid because of age. Newton created equations hundreds of years ago that, while unable to explain the universe, are still used today in their original form by rocket scientists.

            As for deregulation, you got it and then lost it in the same breath. That was a setup. As is often the case in an age of psychological manipulation, the bankers asked for bad legislation which happened to be an example of deregulation, knowing full well what it would do, and then when the inevitable occurred not only do they get the bailouts (have their cake and eat it too) they get to demonize deregulation in order to kill two birds with one stone. You can’t stereotype deregulation. It can obviously be misused in the wrong hands, and it obviously needs to be used with plenty of forethought and care, but you’ve fallen into a trap they’ve set to make people less likely to support any effort to alter or abolish all the bad laws they have created and intend to create in the future.

            As for the last part… we’re going to watch the entire edifice fall apart if we do nothing. The only difference is the hard choices will be made for us and we won’t have many options to make it hurt less. It’s better we make the hard choices while we still have options. The best part is, once we prove to ourselves and the world that we’re serious about getting our financial house in order, investors and consumers will become more confident and the economic improvements will accelerate the strengthening of our overall position. I firmly believe Paul would preside over the greatest economic expansion in history if given the chance.

          • McDowell2

            Learn the truth about your demigod here: scribd.com/doc/76540883/Ron-Paul-The-Most-Dangerous-Nazi-in-America

          • The “truth” that this rather silly book is trying to assert is that Paul hates Jews like a Nazi, simply because he opposes keeping the US taxpayer on the hook for defending Israel like it is the 51st state. This is a position of neutrality, more in line with Nazi Germany’s neighbor Switzerland than the foreign policy of the 3rd Reich. It is also different from a view found among many progressives, that the US should prevent Israel from defending itself which of course Paul does not share. He supports selling them whatever weapons they want to buy with their own money, but at the same time staying out of their many conflicts with their region.

            When it comes to their romanticism of military conflict, Neocon intellectuals show more resemblance to the philosophy of National Socialism.

          • McDowell2

            Obviously you didn’t read the book, which has nothing to do with Israel but details Paul’s long time links to American Nazis who Paul marketed his newsletters to.
            It’s funny how the US provides aide to over 150 countries but Paulina’s always bring up Israel.

          • I admit I am not one of the three people who have read that book from cover to cover, but I did use my LSAT test prep skills to get the gist of it. I made reference to chapter 4, because it seemed to have the least amount of material that was completely made up. Since the book has NeoCon written all over it, the philologist in me figured war with Iran was the most important motivation for writing the rest of the book which is mostly nonsensical.

            It is the case that Ron Paul’s letters were marketed to populist conservatives which include a great deal of creepy people. Authors like Lew Rockwell that ghost wrote them for Paul wrote several passages over the years that deserve condemnation for being racist. The book employs a great deal of fiction to use this as a premise that Ron Paul is a Nazi.

            Probably the chapter that impeaches this book’s credibility the most is chapter 10 which displays a remarkable amount of ignorance about fascist political economy and the role Mises played in critiquing it. Indeed even its very title speaks volumes about the intellectual caliber of its author: “Von Mises – Fascist Economist” Seriously?

    • I have been in the GOP since I was 18.

    • Plainly you do not know that Dr. Paul’s platform is nothing less than the United States Constitution. Example: when there is war to be had, it must first be declared by Congress. Also….Congress is to “coin money”. …not the Federal Reserve, which is not even a United States entity in any way, nor a bank. The banking cartel does not want Dr. Paul. Thousands of people (ave 5000) people attend Dr. Paul’s speeches, with only 2 days advance notice. Please check out Dr. Paul at: http://www.RonPaul2012.com (official site) or http://www.Dailypaul.com or http://www.RonPaulforums.com Dr. Paul is not an extremist. The media, owned by Bain Capital (Romney’s company) which controls the media certainly does not want you to know this. Most importantly, Ron Paul is an honest man, and he would throw the criminals out. THAT is what they are afraid of most of all and THAT is why the powers that be have hired undercover cops for examples, at the Louisiana convention.
      Paul people are taking over the GOP back to it’s roots and the powers that be don’t want their gravy train to end.

    • joe

      LMAO The only one sabotaging The ORP is the ORP leadership. Ron Paul came out weeks before the ORP convention stating at best he had 500 delegates. There was no purpose in Ron Paul enthusiasts “CONSERVATIVES” undermining ORP rules as did the leadership. You are a fine example of why Democrats continue to run the state, advocating for liars & RINO’s will only lead to lost elections!
      You say no manipulation of party rules, then I say to you I hope you have the integrity to stand with other Republicans to throw out those in ORP leadership that commited this fraud at our conventions?

    • I think it is very revealing that your post is primarily just questioning how Republican this movement centered on Ron Paul’s campaign is. That is ultimately what is in play: what it means to be a Republican. Rather than engage them on issues, you call them names. What else can you do since your ideas are on the wane and theirs are on the rise. If that’s the best you can do, then ask yourself this. Who will out organize who? Who will outlive who? Who has a more attractive message than can grow itself beyond the declining demographics of the GOP? Who has a more coherent philosophy of liberty and limited government?

  • D. L. Partyka

    ” No machinations, no manipulation of party rules, and no lawsuits are
    going to change that evaluation. Guerrilla tactics that only seek to
    undermine the strength and enthusiasm of the party have no place in our
    strategy to win back the country.”

    Then your only Option IS Dr. Ron Paul 2012

  • The Oregon GOP was outright cheating at the convention, walking out with ballots when the majority voted to continue the convention, so the party insiders could “APPOINT” delegates. Seems to me it is those cronyists inside you need to be worried about, not those shining the light and watching them scurry. Speaking of scurrying, here are video to watch of some small part of what really happened:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cPBnuvRAjWQ (note the ‘attack’ referred to in the heading had already occurred in this video with one RP supporter’s video phone being hit from his hands. You just see the aftermath and that the party insider had to return the ballots she was planning on driving off with.)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83lz9Lrn8IM

    https://www.ordelegates2012.org/2012/07/orp-appoints-friends-in-secret-meeting-to-replace-duly-elected-delegation/

    And a letter from the Ron Paul Campaign legal team which seems unaware of not being involved any longer in the campaign: https://www.scribd.com/doc/99041128/Letter-to-Oregon-GOP-Chairman-July-3-2012-Ron-Paul-Campaign-legal

  • ExFoxNewsFan

    No liberal Dyer…the GOP is sabotaging the GOP.

    • Ballistic45

      Yep, GOP leadership is destroying what is left of the GOP….

  • DefeatObama2012

    Watch this video explaining how to infiltrate local GOP organizations with leftists and other faux Republicans to bolster Ron Paul. Isn’t this what happened? https://youtu.be/HawiHvxloms

    • joe

      Ron Paul came out weeks before the Oregon Convention & said at best he would have 500 delegates. There was no purpose for the fraud the ORP leadership pulled other then to maintain control over conventions mood! Roney inspiration for Obamacare REALLY??
      Ron Paul was the only conservative running!! Santorum voted for bailouts, Paul created Tea Party, Santorum voted for debt ceiling increases, earmarks etc, Paul didnt & served in the military!!

    • Watch this video again and ask yourself if it is a bad thing thing that Ron Paul who is more committed to cutting government than any other candidate that ran for the GOP nomination, can actually attract former Democrats to this cause. He does this by holding positions on foreign policy the old Republican Party used to have, the GOP of Howard Taft, Henry Cabot Lodge, and Wendell Willkie. On social issues, Paul has also formulated an attractive platform for young people by being uncompromisingly pro-life on abortion but more tolerant than most in his party for gay rights.

      Regarding recruitment from the other party, we have seen this movie before in the intra party factional dynamic that diluted that paleo-conservative GOP set of values Paul is trying to restor as the socially conservative Democrats were invited into the ORP by the Moral Majority, Oregon Citizens Alliance, and Christian Coalition to boost their ranks, and the Wilsonian foreign policy intellectuals of the Kennedy and Johnson administrations became Republicans during the Carter and Reagan years whom we refer to an NeoCons.

      These new PCPs are not so much Ron Paul supporters as they represent a new faction that is increasingly being called the RLC (Republican Liberty Caucus). That they go out and recruit new people into the Republican Party is both respectable and to be expected. That other factions would prefer they did not do so is also to be expected too, but calling this sabotage is a way that people whose ideas are on the wane explain away their defeats.

  • mnolan13

    Republicans sabotaged themselves when they nominated etch-a-sketch. If they don’t correct that error in August, it will be establishment Republicans who are responsible for Obama’s 2nd term.

  • Pat in the hat

    Anybody that has been paying attention, watching the video’s from the caucuses, studying who is doing what.to whom. Its not that hard to add 1+1 to get the answer of 2. TAKE A LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE, before you make judgement, and start misleading people. Writers like this need to be removed from any “reputable” blog. or news feed.

  • Ballistic45

    The biggest lie within the GOP leadership is the painting of Ron Paul as being to far Right…. The truth is, Ron is Standing squarely on the spot where the GOP started.. Fully committed to Constitutional Government…

    It is the GOP that has moved Left for various reasons including self serving career opportunities, leaving Ron Paul marking the spot where the GOP should have stayed.. The GOP Leadership hate Ron for that stance and fear his reminding voters of the GOP’s failure to stand fast with him on a Constitutional Government…

  • I am a PCP, State, county and HD delegate. We opened up a new victory center at our local GOP HQ today. It was to kickstart the Romney campaign and there were a lot of people attending including our local congressman, senator and some other candidates. I still showed up with my skateboard that has Ron Paul stickers on it and there was another attendee that gave me some Ron Paul buttons. So of course I rocked it. It turned some heads. There are more races than just for president and us Ron Paul supporters do a lot of the grassroots work for them. It isn’t our fault that the leadership and status quo are pushing an Obama clone. At least we have principles and passion.

  • Rupert in Springfield

    There is a point at which interest in a candidate crosses over from support, to enthusiasm, to zealotry to “he can do no wrong”. For whatever reason, and no matter how reasonable or unreasonable some of his positions may be, Ron Paul seems to have a following that often reaches that final plateau, at least in their arguments. Going ballistic when the average person does not see the Fed as Satan is an example of that. I have been in too many situations where I have said that I don’t buy that the Fed is the single biggest problem in America. Generally I am instantly greeted by a lot of arcane zanyness devolving into screams about the Trilateral Commission fading into the distance as I head for the drink table.

    In short, for whatever reason, as trailer parks are hurricane attractors, RonPaul is a crazy attractor.

    • realist

      All this means is that you’ve happened across a few Paulites that have learned the truth but are not able to express it to you very well.

      I am not one who goes ballistic when someone around me fails to see the outright theft inherent in our system. I do find it ironic that you guys can complain all day long about the housing prices, the losses in your investments, and a hundred other dollar-related issues but still somehow not point your finger at the source of those controlling the dollars. If that’s how your cute little world makes sense to you, then hey, be my guest.

      …Just don’t try to stop me from getting someone in office to fix the REAL problems we have today, ok?

      A vote for Romney is a vote for obomba, in every way you could imagine.

      • joe

        Well said, to bad most of these people allow the media or out of touch conservative radio personalities to decide their vote for them! We are winning!! No more RINO’s Allowed.

    • joe

      Yes honest representation with historical consistancy unlike ALL other candidates is very attractive! Maybe if you knew more about Paul other then what our conservative radio friends & progressive hacks like to spew you might form a new opinion.

    • Rupert, perhaps we have to handicap the average age of the Ron Paul supporter. This could be seen as a matter of maturity. There are older supporters who also act their age, happy that they have lived long enough to see a real movement growing within the Republican Party with a coherent philosophy of limited government for a change, but at the same time understanding that government policies do not turn on a dime. What I think the younger folks have is not so much arcane zanyness as a lack of patience. These days however, perhaps our problem is that both political parties have more patience about dealing with our fiscal deficit than the bond market has.

      Their obsession with the Federal Reserve can only sound conspiratorial from those who don’t fully get Paul’s position. It’s less about central bankers running the world as a very respectable theoretical critique of current counter-cyclical monetary policy which they see as the root cause of our boom and busts, making it central to the economic focus that our election should be about. The more committed volunteers who got elected to PCP positions care very deeply about monetary policy. Compared to burning down the house over immigration and gay marriage, that seems to be a rather worthy endeavor.

      We should also compare them favorable to a far more corrupting zealotry: the average Republican’s worship at the cult of Ronald Reagan, a president with a more conservative congress than any other modern president has had (since all those southern democrats had not yet changed parties), but he managed to grow the size of government spending relative to our GDP more than Obama could ever dream of doing. Reagan was sworn into office when the Soviet Union was in imminent economic collapse, yet he happily signed into law the very automatic entitlement spending increases that are bankrupting us now so he could build a military that was not needed. Of all the presidents in recent memory, Reagan let America down more than any other. In that regard, Ron Paul is more deserving of this kind of rock star status, because he was critical of Reagan while a member of Congress in the 80s while everyone else was worshiping the gipper.

  • Realist

    I’ve never seen an article that helped Obomba out so much as this one.

    Davis Dyer must be the Democrat’s secret weapon!

    • joe

      The only sabotaging I saw was that commited By ORP leadership.

  • chadananda

    I just don’t understand why the establishment GOP is working so hard to get Obama re-elected.

    • joe

      Romney is so much like Obama establishment wins either way. Allen Alley & his accomplices in the ORP got to go for the fraud they commited!

      • lakristinita

        did you see the poll on this page about who should be the next governor, They are pushing for Allen Alley,, which I find so amusing since we are working to get him recalled right now for being so corrupt. Whats wrong with all these people that voted for him,, they cry that they dont want corruption then vote the the most corrupt person,, I think they will get what they deserve!!!

        • Alley was in the lead before this article began attracting so many RLC folks to the Oregon Catalyst. You are right in pointing out that some of these new Catalyst readers have been participating in the poll, but what they have done is pushed “someone else” into the lead, while Alley has remained flat. I would suggest the name on there that they could most identify with is Jim Huffman. That’s who I voted for in this poll when it first came out several weeks ago.

    • Romney is the Goldman Sachs candidate. Ironically, Obama is also the Goldman Sachs candidate. Who would you say will win? (Goldman Sachs?) Heads they win, tails we lose. Wall St bankers and war profiteers run our country, and they like it that way.

      With the mass media firmly in tow, they can make most Americans also like it that way.

  • joe

    The ONLY sabotaging of the ORP conventions was commited by ORP leadership!!

    Davis Dyer must be a Romney RINO like all of the Oregon Republican Leadership which broke their own rules & commited mass fraud at our conventions.

    Amazing he makes no mention of the fraud organized by Romney through Allen Alley & the rest of ORP leadership to those members who supported not just Paul but the CONSERVATIVE base of the Republican Party.

    Paul said weeks before our convention at best he had 500 delegates there is no purpose to Paul supporters breaking any rules! Only thing accomplished by this deceit Mr. Dyer, is that ORP current leadership is no better then those Progressives you allegedly oppose!

    Shame on Allen Alley & all those who played a role & would put a spin on this deceit! Santorum a guy who voted for bailouts, raising the debt, earmarks, etc. almost beat Romney the inspiration of Obamacare on merit. LOL Republican Party has reached bottom!

    • 3H

      Almost.. but he didn’t. That is the significant factor. Complain all you will, but Romney has a majority of the delegates, and votes, of people registered Republican. If the party has shifted to the left, as at least one person claimed (and I don’t believe), it would be in response to what a majority of Republicans want?

      By the way, Obamacare wasn’t invented by Romney, but was a Republican an alternative, and response, to the Left’s advocating for Single Payer.

      In your heart of hearts, don’t you all now wish it was a Single Payer instead? 😉

      • No, actually I would like to see government get out of the average American’s health care. Along with the insurance lobbyists, ambulance chasing lawyers and big pharma. They have all gotten between the patient and their health care provider, driving costs through the roof.
        If you truly want affordable health care, get all of the middlemen out and people will be able to afford health care much easier.

  • nancy

    You’ve got to be OUT of it. GOP puts Romney on the stage and you blame Paul supporters for ruining the party?? What bush are you hiding underneath?

    • 3H

      What about all the Republicans that voted for Romney in the various primaries? Don’t they, and their ideas, represent the Republican party as well? It could simply be that Paul, and his supporters, do not reflect the views and values of a majority of Republicans; otherwise wouldn’t his popularity be higher?

      • D. L. Partyka

        They Would have had they been legitimate, but reverse voting, false sheets, etc. nullify any of my concerns about them.

      • They have cheated the votes, there is proof that the voting machines would count Paul votes as Romney votes, and that the ballots with Paul on them were folded in the corners so the machines couldn’t read them and they could be thrown out as invalid. RNC and GOP started this war not the Paul people.

      • teriB

        The majority of Republicans, and Democrats for that matter, don’t vote. Some can’t be bothered because no one reflects their views closely enough. Many voted for Romney because he was the projected nominee. Anyone who says they know who does reflect the views and values of the majority of Republicans is lying. Ron Paul could beat Obama. Romney’s chances aren’t great, particularly since the GOP seems bent on disenfranchising a sizable number of their own.

  • Ron Glynn

    I have been involved with the Oregon Republican Central Committee for 22 years either as delegate or alternate delegate. This article is counter productive and only serves to cause disunity in the Republican Party. I do not discriminate against other Republicans because of who they support. Name calling is for children. Mitt Romney wil be our nominee and Ron Paul supporters know that because Ron Paul himself admitted to it a couple of weeks ago. All Republican leaders at every level want to end Obama’s reign of madness. It would be insanity to support anyone else but Mitt Romney. This is a story much about nothing.

    • D. L. Partyka

      Ron Paul Supporters will NEVER back Romney not here not there not anywhere. Sorry Seuss couldn’t resist.

  • Free10

    Federal law trumps any RNC or state laws and that is being fought out in court in California Federal court to free ALL representatives from being bound to ANY candidate. Also a full investigation of voter fraud is going on at the same time by the lawyers for Ron Paul. This is not the campaign for Ron Paul doing this but those wanting freedom and liberty.

    https://recordings.talkshoe.com/TC-118018/TS-635553.mp3

  • TSA_Groper

    “…Guerrilla tactics that only seek to undermine the strength and enthusiasm of the party have no place in our strategy to win back the country. There is too much at stake this time.”

    Enthusiasm? What enthusiasm? For Romney? Ha, that’s funny. The only REAL enthusiasm comes from Ron Paul supporters.

    ‘To win back the country’? From what? Romney and Obama are quite the same when it comes to policies–especially important policies. The difference I see is that Obama has a slight edge on consistency. Mr. Romney is the biggest flip-flopper since John Kerry and he’s even worse than Mr. Kerry.

    Your article mentions that the lawsuit may not hold water but it does not mean that the RNC’s legal counsel’s statement does not. If the rules say the delegates can vote for any candidate, how can this considered to be ‘guerilla tactics’?

  • scatcatpdx

    I have to sake my head. Mr, Ryan lost not because of the leadership but we rank and file who bothered to vote in the primary saw nothing in Mr Ryan to vote for.

    In the 19980’s I was involved para Church personality cult. I see the same paranoia and infallibility zellotry in Ryan supporters as many taped in that sect. I bothers me how emotionally manipulative Paul’s supporters are; to whit stack attendance at the debates to hoot and holler when Mr Ryan makes a point. I am am mature male who keep my emotions in check and can see though such ploy. Asfor Mr Ryan (the senior) he come across Somebody that doesn’t have a grasp on sound economic and political principals.

  • This article is fuckin gay and the person who wrote it is a dumbass

  • cdavis2951

    Our government is first and foremost a Republic. We give the people a vote to help convince delegates of a candidate, but our government is designed upon this concept to save itself from the “sheep” affect or “lesser of two evils” voting practices. Plus your post fails to account for the voting machine fraud and other dirty tactics by the Romney campaign. Selecting delegates is a public event in which any citizen can take part in. Just because most of the Republican party didn’t go and cast their votes on delegates to represent the state doesn’t mean they didn’t have the chance. The results of caucus’ only shows the candidate that is truly supported by the people rather than the media. Thanks for writing this humorous and twisted account of what is going on in our country today.

    • There were occasions in some voting places, of 70+% for Paul and 30-% for Romney on exit polls. However, the machine voting results were the exact opposite, Texas comes to mind.
      Then the GOP proclaims “the people have spoken”.
      Which people?

  • Well I’ve seen video shot there at the Oregon state convention, and two delegates had to chase down ballots that were being loaded into a vehicle outside to be taken away, and it was apparent from hearing one end of a phone conversation in the video that it was Chairman Allen Alley who ordered the cheating to occur.

    I don’t understand how some people in the GOP can expect Ron Paul supporters to actually want to have “Unity” when we are constantly being defrauded by the GOP leadership in basically every state throughout this primary. The very notion that Ron Paul supporters should shut up and sit down and “play nicely” when we are being coerced, intimidated, defrauded, and even assaulted at caucuses and conventions, is repulsive to any sensible person. If you want Unity so badly, then quit acting like the rules don’t matter and some people’s votes don’t matter. This year, it’s way too late for that. You can stick Unity up your cheating a**es.

  • Perhaps we should not stray too far from the context of why Dyer wrote this. The ORP leadership appears to have engaged in real sabotage of their own district conventions, and blatantly violated their own rules, because a new faction in the Republican Party is emerging so quickly that out of nowhere it began winning every election it ran a candidate in. This movement is not about one man; it is increasingly being called the RLC (Republican Liberty Caucus) that seeks to return the GOP to its paleo-conservative roots of the party of Howard Taft, Henry Cabot Lodge, and Wendell Willkie, a party of free markets, limited government, social tolerance with a more limited foreign policy that seeks more neutrality toward other countries’ affairs. I laid out what happened at the ORP District Conventions for the Oregonian and put it in the context of the ORP’s history:
    https://blog.oregonlive.com/myoregon/2012/06/the_ron_paul_revolution_vs_all.html

    That many others with different views would oppose the rise of a new faction with a competing set of ideas is to be expected. The ad hominen way in which some ORP commentators make libelous claims against members of the RLC who earnestly and legally run for office within their own party begs a larger question of why they have to stoop to that level. Why can’t their own ideas attract the kind of following that gets people to run as PCPs and turn out to district conventions? Why are they forced to defend blatant rule breaking by the ORP leadership?

    Part of this comes from a claim that is factually not true: that members of the RLC who have been duly elected to be pledged Romney delegates are planning not to vote for Romney as ORP rules require. This claim is made from surfing all manner of Ron Paul blogs where like any such format, you get all manner of speculation from people peripheral to the disciplined organization that those twenty-somethings put on display two weeks ago.

    Here are the facts regarding the Paul Campaign’s goal of amassing 500 elected delegates of the RLC to go to Tampa. 1) The Paul Campaign has been silent as to what they are going to do with them. 2) The Paul Campaign has been privately trying to steer these delegates away from Lawyers for Ron Paul. 3) When a few delegates signed up, the Campaign sent out its operative Doug Wead to publicly pour cold water on the notion that the Paul Campaign intend to use these delegates to actually get Paul the nomination. Wead has publicly pointed out two things: a ) with all the RNC committeemen and members of congress who have a vote, there are 2,286 delegates at that convention. Even if Paul had 500 votes, it would not be enough to win. b) more importantly, speaking officially for the campaign, Doug Wead has said publicly to Ron Paul’s supporters that their campaign seeks to win over the rest of their party to this cause, therefore Wead is not sure Ron Paul would want to win the nomination this way even if he could since it would admittedly be controvercial. 4) It is a FACT that every PCP of Oregon’s RLC faction that has been elected to the office of being a pledged delegate to a candidate other than Ron Paul plans on voting for the candidate to which they are pledged to. Accusations to the contrary based postings found in the social media rumor mill amount to libel.

    It is an absolute shame the way the ORP leadership has treated these young people trying to get involved in their own party organization. It is also an even greater shame the way conservative commentators in this state whom I respect have denounced these idealistic new volunteers for limiting government as engaged in corruption and fraud, when in fact they have been in compliance with the rules and intend to remain in compliance with their party’s rules at Tampa. These conservative friends of mine need to really think about what they are saying when they defend the blatant rule breaking of the ORP leadership at our district conventions as somehow justified because the RLC was winning too great a share of the coveted seats to go to the national convention and rub shoulders with the powerful. “What a waste!” friends of Kevin Mannix on the ORP leadership must have thought when a 19 year old can beat such an established figure in the ORP. What could that 19 year old possibly accomplish floating in those circles? When a guy who could not get elected Oregon Attorney General or Oregon Governor cannot even get elected by his own party organization to go to Tampa to have a beer with the Romney guy who might be writing the short list for DOJ appointments, then it might be time to stop the elections and have the executive committee appoint people that “deserve” to go.

    The biggest canard is the idea that only a Romney supporter deserves to be a pledged Romney delegate. The obvious problem with that unprecedented assertion that is not supported by any rule, is that among the committed activists that want to go to the national convention, hardly anyone had Romney as their first choice. The vast majority of Republicans who supported Ron Paul in the primary will end up voting for him in the general election. Just as many committed evangelical Christians actually refused to vote for Bob Dole in 1996 because they thought he had compromised too much on Abortion, some Paul supporters will vote for someone else too. For them, it is not enough that Romney shows he will be a better president than Barack Obama. They need to be convinced Romney will be a better president than George W. Bush.

    Since the primary goal of this new RLC faction is to purge the corruption of big government conservatism from their party, were we to speculate on what the actual Paul campaign intends to do with all these ideological allies at the national convention, comparing this convention to the one sixteen years ago is helpful. In 1996, Ralph Reed amassed an army of former Pat Buchanan and Alan Keyes supporters to come to the convention as pledged Dole delegates. They used their numbers and even the threat of causing nomination problems as leverage to get their people prominent speaking slots, preserve the pro-life plank of the platform, and prevent Dole from nominating a pro-choice running mate. I would not call this corruption. This is not fraud. This is legitimate party politics where a committed group of people seek to use the party organization and its limited powers to advance their cause. I am no insider as to the Paul Campaign’s exact plans, but those of you who read my writing here at the catalyst and the Oregonian’s My Oregon Blog know I don’t play games when it comes to political analysis. Observing the Paul campaign’s behavior, they are trying to do the same thing every other new faction has legally sought. They want prominent speaking roles. They want to have a say in their party’s platform; they want to ensure Romney does not nominate a national security hawk as his running mate.

    It is perfectly ok to not agree with the RLC’s values, but it is absolutely shameful for those of you who libelous denounce these fellow Republicans as saboteurs simply because they have out organized you. What is really going on here is that people who thought they were entitled to enjoy the honor and privilege of being allowed into the national convention could not get duly elected to do so, so they relied on their friends in the ORP leadership to afford them the opportunity by illegally appointing them. On the Bill Post Radio show, Solomon Yue said that during those hours of down time, he was very busy on the phone talking to people who lost their election and as he said had their feelings hurt. The notion that the Republican Liberty Caucus does not belong in the ORP is identical to the position of the socially liberal ORP establishment that broke so many rules trying to cling to power as social conservatives became PCPs in droves in the 1990s. Allen Alley has essential returned the ORP leadership to the bad old days of Craig Berkman. My conservative friends with ties to him need to look themselves in the mirror and ask if that is what they want their party to be.

    Now, since I am a nerd, I would also like to take the time addressing RNC rule 38, because there is a scenario where the Paul Campaign probably would have challenged state law, and that is if no nominee had reached a majority of pledged delegates in the primaries so as to invite a brokered convention. That would have been fun, but Gingrich and Santorum faded too quickly to make that happen. I also want to address it because Dyer got it so wrong on many levels.

    First, it would have been helpful if Dyer had read the 2008 RNC council’s ruling in its entirety. Then he might understand what the unit rule is rather than embrace the know-nothing approach of “who cares?” The unit rule is how delegates are bound, by preventing them from voting in the first place. In a voice vote, their votes are submitted by their delegation leader for them. That would of course be Allen Alley. It would go something like this. The first round of voting would have the national chair call on each state’s delegation one by one in a voice vote, and ORP Chairman Allen Alley would respond by saying something like this: “The Great State of Oregon, home of the Ducks and Beavers, pledges 1 delegate for Newt Gingrich, 3 delegates for Rick Santorum, 3 delegates to Ron Paul, and 21 delegates to the next president of the United States Mitt Romney!”

    If a delegate wants to vote for someone other than whom he is pledged he must make his own point of order to do so. This is exactly what that delegate from Utah did. Dyer undermines his own credibility as a writer by putting in quotation marks a false quote to support his inaccurate assertion that the RNC saw this as a trivial matter. Even bloggers cannot simply make things up and hope to be persuasive. The RNC legal council took this very seriously, and anyone who has actually read the entire document can see why. The central legal issue was the matter of how to deal with a conflict of laws. Just as Oregon’s ORP rules simply conform to Oregon law; RNC rule 38 conforms to federal law, including the Voter’s Rights Act which bans the unit rule. The way the attempted procedural loophole that states have been using to pretend they are not engaging in unit voting was found by the RNC legal counsel likely to be struck down by a court. The RNC did not want the de facto way of their conventions to be formally ruled on by actual litigation so they simply let this guy have his de jur right as an elector, to vote his conscious. For those of you that would like to know, the loophole being used is the silly argument that unit voting only refers to the binding of an entire state delegation. Since the ORP Chair and the two RNC Committee people are not bound, the claim goes, it does not violate federal election law. The RNC did not want to spend money defending that in court and neither did the URP. Of course neither would the ORP, if it had come to that, but again it will not have to because none of the pledged delegates in the Oregon delegation have any plans on voting for anyone other than their assigned candidate. They all intend to comply with ORP rules to the letter. If only the ORP leadership did the same.

    Having said that, one cannot help but make fun of Dyer’s assertion that an Oregon delegate would face a $10K fine for false swearing. This sounds like the sort of legal opinion of a trailer park counsel, making things up as he goes along. He would be well advised to actually read all of Oregon’s chapter 248 in its entirety (Political Parties and Presidential Electors) paying special attention to ORS 248.315. Dyer would also be advised to understand the nature of ORS 162.075. False swearing is a class A misdemeanor whose maximum fine is $6,250. Again Mr. Dyer why do you just make things up? What kind of a writer are you? False swearing is not to be confused with contract law. When someone pledges to vote for Romney and then fails to do so, changing one’s mind is not subject to prosecution under this law. The prosecutor must prove that the candidate for pledged delegate intended to not to vote for the candidate he was pledged to at the very moment he made that pledge. Good luck delving into the conscious of a voter that votes his conscious. Again this would only have been an issue if we had a brokered convention. Romney is going to get the nominee with these former Paul supporters’ votes.

    It is of course Dyer, a guy prone to makes things up, that misrepresents what the privilege of going to a convention is all about. When he asserts a delegate is not a free agent, he is really saying that a delegate should not be a free agent. It is perfectly all right to make such normative claims, but lets put this into its philosophical context. A century ago, the Progressive Movement sought to eliminate three structural barriers to the expansion of government, by replacing our republican form of government with a more democratic process: 1) the way state legislatures elected Senators was replaced by their direct election. 2) Madison’s vision of legislators originating all legislation was replaced with the a competing form of the direct democracy of referendum. And 3) Party authority was replaced by primaries. By and large the Progressives got what they wanted at the state level, but because our federal Constitution is more difficult to amend, they could only ratify the 17th Amendment. Thus we do not have national ballot measures and we still have electors in presidential primaries. Most conservatives realize that the popular vote of the general election is nothing more than a straw poll. The electors of the Electoral College can vote for whomever they want. For the presidential primary elections, the Progressives did what they could to make them in practice behave less republican and more democratic, but the conflict of these laws are easily challenged since electoral law to federal office is incorporated under the 14th Amendment’s due process clause.

    Regarding Lawyers for Ron Paul, the most important fact about them he left out. The Ron Paul Campaign wants nothing to do with them and neither do Oregon’s duly elected alternates. If Dyer were capable of any fact checking he would see that Lawyers for Ron Paul is nothing more than a cross between ambulance chasing hustlers and and a false charity. It has been trying to sign Ron Paul supporters up in a suit the Paul Campaign does not want, so that this organization can collect donations for the cause. Lawyers for Ron Paul is a joke, but the Ron Paul Campaign’s legal team is not. Oregon’s alternate delegates that were duly elected are being represented by the official campaign legal team. Here is a link to their letter to Allen Alley: https://www.scribd.com/doc/99041128/Letter-to-Oregon-GOP-Chairman-July-3-2012-Ron-Paul-Campaign-legal

    • Dave Nalle

      Eric. Thanks for seeing the role that the Republican Liberty Caucus and people who associate with it are having in this process. We are here to change the party and bring back adherence to the values it has always claimed to stand for, and I cannot imagine why any honest Republican would object to that.

      We have a new but rapidly growing chapter in Oregon and although we have been around as an organization for 20 years, we freely acknowledge the benefits which the Ron Paul campaign has brought us as supporters transition into a long term commitment to activism within the Republican Party. Unlike the claims in this article, the RLC is all about being in this for the long haul.

      When I became a Precinct Chair about 6 years ago I was dismayed to see that at 46 I was the youngest person in the room at our Executive Committee meetings. The liberty movement has changed that and Ron Paul was the major driving force for many years. The GOP desperately needs an infusion of new blood, new energy and new ideas and they’re finally getting it. I think the end result will be a much better, much stronger party.

      Now that is changing. As you point out, we have many great candidates around the country and they are winning elections. Ron Paul isn’t alone in Congress anymore and when he leaves next year there will be many new voices to replace him in speaking out for real conservatism and Republican values.

      You mentioned that the RLC is not actively opposing Romney while philosophically supporting Paul and his ideas. I should also point out that we have issued an advisory to our members and chapters not to become plaintiffs in or associate with Lawyers for Ron Paul. Their confrontational style and questionable tactics undermine a lot of what we’re trying to do. The RNC has not really been the villain here so far and despite the many insults experienced by our delegates in some states, we should be looking for redress within the party system, not by going outside of it. What they are doing weakens our position and our legitimacy as real Republicans of principle. We can take some abuse if that’s what’s necessary to reclaim the party for our principles.

      Dave Nalle
      National Chairman
      Republican Liberty Caucus
      https://www.rlc.org

    • Junk Address

      Do yourself a favor, stop calling this a “faction” — it sounds illegitimate.

      • I suppose the term faction would sound illegitimate to anyone who has never read the Federalist Papers, particularly #10. Since so few people read much of anything, perhaps I should consider a different locution, but since it is hard for me to think of anything more legit than a group of people with a shared vision of government working together within their party to change the direction America is headed, I suppose I have to ask you to provide me with a more focus group tested term.

        • Junk Address

          Yes, most of us are aware of the language used in the federalist papers. Hamilton in particular has come to be nearly in-penetrable without the benefit of a thesaurus. Given my understanding of your ideology, I find a citing of the federalist papers to be rather odd — after all, the federalists were the neo-cons of their day while the part of paleo-con was played by the anti-federalists.

          That said, if you want to continue to use the word “faction” then, by all means keep doing so, it sounds like you’re using the word “minority” which automatically puts you at a disadvantage. No, to be successful, you are not a faction — you are the core.

          That sounds better right? And, it fits better with the point that I’ve seen bandied about regarding the Liberty Caucus’ desire to restore the Republican Party to it’s ideological center.

          So you see, I wasn’t trying to be snarky, my concern was genuine.

          • obsid

            James Madison wrote much of the federalist papers too. Although he believed in the constitution (he wrote it after all), he was a leader of the “republican party” (as they called it) not the federalist party. Furthermore the federalist papers were written BEFORE the constitution was ratified. As such it was the argument by those that supported the constitution to try and convince those that did not to join up and vote for the constitution. It is for that reason that it is taken quite persuasively by anyone (even the supreme court which uses it quite often), as evidence of what the constitution was trying to achieve and what its original meaning was.

            James Madison wrote much of the federalist papers too. Although he believed in the constitution (he
            wrote it after all), he was a leader of the “republican party” (as they called
            it) not the federalist party. Furthermore
            the federalist papers were written BEFORE the constitution was ratified. As such it was the argument by those that supported
            the constitution to try and convince those that did not to join up and vote for
            the constitution. It is for that reason
            that it is taken quite persuasively by anyone (even the supreme court which
            uses it quite often), as evidence of what the constitution was trying to achieve
            and what its original meaning was. (plurality might be a better word then majority or minority)

          • Junk Address

            I was not referring to parties, I was referring to ideology (hence the lower-cases).

          • obsid

            I am not sure how that is relevant to
            what I wrote, I thought you meant ideology…..

          • Junk Address

            I misread you.

  • LFRP did not file any lawsuit, that case was filed by an attorney for ALL delegates that felt that they were cheated. this includes Romney, Gingrich, Santorum, and anyone else. The only involvment in the case that LFRP had with the case was volenteering when the attorneys asked for help, such as spreading the word, notifying delagates, and service of documents as well as other things.

  • “Will Ron Paul supporters violate their pledge to Mitt Romney?”
    Well, if they don’t we can always break their fingers,,, right?

    While Obama and Romney argue about that all important issue of gay marriage, our currency is dangerously close to a collapse. The world is in “global debt crisis” yet we hear nothing from either of these empty suits about those issues. Ron Paul has a very firm grasp of economics and admired by economists around the world (except for Ben Bernanke, lol). Undeclared wars wars that benefit only Wall St bankers, oil companies and war profiteers seem to be the norm, while consuming 51% of our economy.

    Regardless of the outcome in August, or even November, Dr Paul has opened a great many eyes to reality, and will no doubt continue to do so after the general election. This is truly a movement and won’t end when Paul retires from elected office. We will continue to see him lead a movement for quite some time.

  • s v

    We must unite to replace Obama’s govt-growing policies with Romney’s govt-growing policies.

  • Sabotage? Is it not rather a necessary course change? What is so wonderful about the GOP today? Unnecessary and continuous war. Bigger government from the ‘small government’ party. The infrastructure for the worst police state imaginable. Yes, a course change is needed, and the sooner the better. Liberty is what is needed.

  • RonPaul-bot

    Um …. No. We’re just
    playing the game BY THE RULES and happen to show up in the majority.
    How is that “sabotage?” Why don’t they get their OWN people to
    show up en masse , play by the rules, and BEAT US ?? Duh…..

    “Delegates to the national convention attend for us.”

    Um ….. So become a delegate and do the work YOURSELF if you don’t like how we’re doing it !! For the author’s information, ANYONE can run for delegate if they are 18+ years old, so stop complaining and do the work that WE’RE doing and get inspired to vote YOUR man into office and do what it takes, just like we are doing !! We are as about as “grass-roots” as it gets and we’re not afraid to get our hands dirty and break a sweat to work hard for a cause in which we believe. Stop letting the posh, pompous GOP stuffies do all your dirty work and get out there and WORK to get your guy nominated instead of playing the dirty games, illegal tricks, and manipulating the conventions because you just can’t stand being a loser to people who are dedicated, hard-working, and believe in a cause with passion and integrity !!

    These people are just such pathetic, whiny, complaining losers because
    they are LOSING at a legitimately-played game and just can’t be mature
    good sports about it, OR, come back fighting strong and give us a fair
    run for our money !! Good grief !! Stop whining and complaining and
    FIGHT for your guy (Mr. Flip-Flopper) if you hate us and love HIM so much !!!

  • rprprs

    A better question to pose:
    Is the entrenched establishment GOP sabotaging the nation, its constitution and its people? And does it do so by continuing to anoint fake conservatives, flip-flopping politicians and finger-in-the-wind candidates totally devoid of anything remotely resembling commitment to principle?
    When that question is answered – and answered honestly – any quibbling over semantics or the exact meaning and verbiage of Rule 38 will seem trivial indeed.

  • VitreousTabard64
  • LONN

    i HOPE SO! THE U.S. JUST NEEDS TO FALL ALREADY. WE CAUSE MORE HATE THAN THE NAZIS DURING WWII. IT IS JUST A MATTER OF TIME NOW. NOBODY TRUSTS THE U.S. ANYMORE BESIDES THE U.S.

  • The so-called “author” of this article is so grossly misinformed, I hesitate to honor it with a reply. Ron Paul has had VASTLY – VASTLY more influence on the dumb old Republican Presidential race – – and will continue to do so and will have enormous influence on the GOP far into the future. Just a casual consumer of news would have known that. Ron Paul has, once again, been the ONLY SANE VOICE in a field of tired old Republican neoconservative puppets that have been dragged out and foisted upon their constituancy. In ’08 it was tired old warmonger and pretend conservative John McCain, and he LOST. This time it’s tired old warmonger and pretend conservative Mitt Romney. Seriously, there’s about two percent of difference between Romney and Obama. Unless the economy takes another nosedive, Romney will lose. I think the GOP wants it that way. There is only ONE party in America, and it’s us against them. God save us from the idgits in Washington.

  • In CD#4 we voted to complete all business in accordance with the rules. We elected David Scott, Nadine Hanhan and Jeffery Osanka as alternates and somehow the OR GOP could unseat duly elected delegates and appoint their friends. Our entire convention was recorded and kive streamed and Joel Henske won as at large delegate not Russ Walker? You can see it announced on the video yourself. The ORP has decided to break their own rules, lie and cheat because they heard rumors someone might do something? Allen Alley and Soloman Yue are destroying the Republican party. If we want a force for more freedom and less government we must remove them and rebuild the party.

  • Jim Evans

    This situation is why it is problematic to be party chairman and also seek statewide office. This situation wasn’t about Ron Paul, rather it was about Allen Alley wanting to please Oregon Republican longtime insiders who influence the Republican primary for governor.
    Everybody knows Alley wants the Republican nomination for governor in 2014.
    And, it is thought (apparently) that insiders play a pivotal role in the nomination race.
    So, Alley is in a tough situation: Insiders who feel entitled to go to the national convention (who don’t care if they are alternates as long as they have that official credential) and hobnob and have face time at the national level versus a new movement that can energize the party and potentially have a beneficial and longterm impact (and, apparently packed the congressional district conventions).
    Part of Alley’s problem last go around in 2010 was that insiders were reluctant to back him because he wasn’t “Republican enough”. Alley thought he needed that insider support for a 2014 run for the nomination and being party chairman would help with that and keep him in the political “eye”.
    How Alley’s gamble works out depends on a couple of alternative scenarios: Do the Ron Paul supporters, aka, Republican Liberty Caucus Republlicans, stay involved politically in the party aparatus? How many Ron Paul supporters are there in the state (remember roughly only 12% voted for Paul in the Oregon primary)? Will these Ron Paul, aka, Liberty Caucus Republicans, remember this incident in 2014 and hold it against Allen Alley? And, as a result of this situation, will the insiders return the favor and support Allen Alley in 2014 and will this put Alley “over the top” to secure the Republican nomination for governor next go around?
    These are all open questions.
    And, most important of all, will enough general rank-and-file Republicans find out about this situation and will they care enough about it to influence who they support and vote for in the primary? (Will the obvious intent to subvert the majority at the congressional district conventions by Alley and the willing insiders and failure to follow party rules taint Alley in the eyes of those rank-and-file Republicans who respect the rules regardless of the “personal politics” involved?)
    This kind of situation is why being party chairman is problematic for use as a stepping stone to statewide office (you are bound to make political opponents along the way — and it would seem in this case that has now happened).

  • Shane Young

    While I find it awkward that the author ends this piece with, “There is too much at stake this time” (something that ran through my mind as I voted for Ron Paul in the primaries and will most likely be voting for him in the general elections), I do agree that this move on behalf of the delegates isn’t smart. If you agree to run as a Republican you should generally play by their rules.

    That said, I think all this points to a larger point, one of which I think a lot of Ron Paul supporters, and Americans in general are beginning to realize. It is no longer the case that of the GOP, as Paul once said, has “lost its way”, but its rather the case that it has deliberately abandoned the majority of its valuable philosophical views…and has no desire to return to them. The same can be said for the Democratic party.

    Ron Paul’s goal was never to bring glory back to the Republican Party. It was an attempt to get people to realize the moral and practical benefits of liberty and the free market of trade and ideas (the fact that Paul has worked with people like Walter Block emphasizes this fact). The fact that this posting has the most comment I’ve seen in at least the past view months suggests that he’s succeeded in some way.

    If the Republican Party, as this post suggests, wants little to do with Ron Paul, the answer for Paul supporters is not to “sabotage” the party but simply recognize the differences between philosophies (although it does make me cringe a bit to think that Romney has any sort of “philosophy”) and stop relying on a group of people who clearly do not want to hear, much less accept the message.

    If Ron Paul supporters have enough stake to believe that Romney will be a better president than Obama, they will vote for Romney. But a lot of them don’t. And the GOP needs to accept this.

    While the GOP has every right to punish those who do not play by the rules, they need to realize the fact that this country is changing.

    • teriB

      The GOP is in danger of becoming a permanent minority party. The Democrats have been buying votes with taxpayer money long enough to put them over the top in the very near future. The party establishment knows this, hence the most Democrat-like nominee.

  • There is no reason to prefer Romney to Obama. If Ron Paul is not on the ballot, Gary Johnson gets my vote.

  • Abc … easy as 123

    Without speaking to the other counterpoints mentioned throughout the comments, many of which I wholeheartedly agree with, there’s a video on YouTube entitled Ron Paul vs. the #HONESTMISTAKE that handily exposes many aspects of the psychological campaign that has been waged against the average voter to the detriment of Paul’s candidacy. The fact that these blatantly obvious examples even exist to be exposed (and the fact that there are countless other examples not featured in the video)–taken with or without all the evidence of widespread fraud throughout the electoral process–not only demonstrates just how desperate establishment players have become, but also manages to quickly invalidate the polling data you cart out in an attempt to support your points.

  • valley person

    Radical economic libertarianism, aside from the fact that it will not work, is not compatible with social conservatism and support for an aggressive military approach to foreign policy. Ron Paul is and will always be a political fringe outlier simply because he is a one trick pony with a program too few will ever support.

    • Abc … easy as 123

      I won’t comment on your economic stance, which is devoid of facts and paints you as believing you hold all the answers and a crystal ball that allows you to see into every possible scenario.

      However, how soon we forget that Bush Junior campaigned on a non-interventionist foreign policy and an end to nation building. The Republican Party was historically about a strong national defense and warfare only with just cause (as exemplified by a clear and present danger), precisely like Paul’s position. The fiction that the party has always been about an aggressive foreign policy is just that; fiction. At best it’s a creative twisting of history as seen through a revisionist lens fashioned in the events of the past decade.

  • NewbInOregon

    Wow, I just moved here and am checking out the local Republican scene as I’ve been a registered Republican my entire adult voting life. I have got to say that I can firmly place this article’s author firmly in the “don’t believe a darn thing from this guy” list. Name calling and such incorrect information are the cause.
    Just one example – rule 38 – the RNC does not hold the delegates to their binding in hopes of the ‘fall in line’ effect. Such examples are easily seen at the 2008 convention where states that had ‘bound’ delegates to Romney or Huckabee were ignored while the entire state cast their first and only round votes at the preannointed John McCain. Now that it looks like it might be used to go against what the the media is directing, some are crying foul.
    I’ll be getting active here in my new home state and will be looking for sources of credible information. Davis Dyer did not make the cut.

  • Judy Spady

    You are dead wrong about the lawsuit and you should get your facts straight before writing things like this! Here are the facts. State law trumps the stupid RNC rules….but Federal law trumps it all. The lawsuit simply asks the judge, which law should we follow going to the convention – Federal or State?

    You are also wrong on the California thing. There are plenty of plaintiffs in the case from the 9th district.

    This article spews false information!!!!

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