When the Feds Fail to Enforce Immigration Laws

Recently the State of Arizona adopted Senate Bill 1070. It has been labeled as the “tough new anti-immigration law.” President Barack Obama responded by saying:

“Now suddenly if you don’t have your papers and you took your kid out to get ice cream, you can be harassed, that’s something that could potentially happen.”

One has come to expect such ignorant remarks from the likes of race hustlers like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton but this is the President of the United State and we should expect better. But it is beginning to appear that, like Jackson and Sharpton, when it comes to playing the race card, Obama is more than willing — remember his comments regarding the Officer Crowley/Professor Gates dust-up in July of 2009. Obama either had not read the Arizona legislation and should, therefore, have kept his mouth shut, or he had read the bill and chose to deliberately mischaracterize it. Obama has shown a pronounced affinity for never letting the facts get in the way of demonizing those with whom he disagrees.

Obama’s comments echoed those by his friends in the mainstream media. David Broeder of the Washington Post began his column vilifying Arizona’s new law:

“If the law goes into effect despite promised constitutional challenges, local police in Arizona will be able to stop people they suspect may not belong here and require them to produce papers attesting that they are legal citizens.

Unlike President Obama, and apparently David Broeder, I have actually read the bill and it is neither a “tough new anti-immigration law”, nor does it permit random harassment of someone because of their ethnic origins.

Arizona’s law does not deal with immigration it deals with ILLEGAL immigration. It does not require that immigrants produce papers dealing with their immigration status, FEDERAL law requires that and Arizona’s new law simply authorizes local law enforcement to likewise inquire about whether someone is violating federal law. It does not authorize someone to be randomly asked to produce papers; it requires such requests to be in conjunction with either probable cause or ancillary to a stop for other violations. (When a law enforcement officer stops you for speeding or a broken headlight, the first thing he asks you for is identification — this is no different.)

But what none of these demagogues have done is put the Arizona law into context. Authorities put the number of ILLEGAL immigrants in Arizona at about 650,000. Given the difficulty in counting illegals, most concede that the number is probably closer to 1,000,000. The total population of Arizona is approximately 6.6 Million. One in ten people in Arizona is present in the United States illegally.

Billions of dollars of illegal drugs pour across the Arizona border each year. Even though drug prosecutions are up by over two hundred percent, over a thousand drug prosecutions in Pima County (Tucson) alone will be refused this year. Those trafficking in illegals routinely kidnap those they transport and hold them until additional monies are paid by their relatives. It is only a matter of time before the open wars between rival Mexican drug cartels begin to spill over into border towns such as Nogales, Yuma and Bisbee.

The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) has pegged the economic cost to Arizona for welfare, healthcare, incarceration and education of illegals at nearly $2 Billion annually — nearly twenty-five percent of that for healthcare alone. Until passage of Arizona’s tough employer sanctions laws, illegals made up approximately ten percent of the workforce contributing significantly to the state’s unemployment rate for those present legally.

Those who enter illegally are preyed upon first by the “coyotes” who transport them and then often by the businesses who employ them. Those businesses often pay substandard wages, violate work hour restrictions, ignore safety requirements and threaten exposure for those who complain. The willingness of those businesses to abuse these workers gives them an economic advantage over those of their competitors who follow the law.

Despite numerous pleas to federal authorities during both the Bush Administration and the Obama Administration, the federal government has failed to act in any meaningful way to help remedy the situation. (One of the most ironic elements of this problem is the fact that former Arizona Gov., and now Secretary of Homeland Security, Janet Napolitano has steadfastly ignored the same pleas from Arizona’s current governor that Napolitano made to the Bush Administration — and who said it isn’t about politics.)

So what does this have to do with Oregon? Oregon has an illegal immigration problem too. Estimates range between 150,000 and 175,000 illegals in Oregon. FAIR has pegged the economic cost to Oregonians at nearly $839 Million for 2010 for welfare, healthcare, incarceration and education of illegals. Oregon is facing a budget gap of at least $2.5 Billion and growing.

Oregon’s unemployment rate remains above 11%. The presence of illegals in the workforce contributed substantially to that number. (There are a number of academic and liberal think tank studies that describe a net benefit to Oregon based upon taxes withheld by employers of illegals. Such studies assume that jobs performed by illegals would go unfilled by Oregonians — an assumption that they have neither test nor proved. More importantly, that assumption may speak more to the willingness of unscrupulous businesses to pay substandard wages than to Oregonians willingness to work.)

Oregon’s prisons are overwhelmed by the number of illegals. Much of the illegal drug trade and gang violence in Oregon can be traced to the presence of a criminal element amongst the illegals. It only took Ted Kulongoski four years as Attorney General and six years as Governor to tumble to the fact that twenty plus years of Oregon Democrat administrations have been issuing driver’s licenses to just about anyone and without proof of citizenship or legal residency. As a result, Oregon has issued driver’s licenses — the primary proof of identification in this state and every other state in the union — to over 150,000 illegal aliens and probably a goodly number of terrorists, drug smugglers and foreign thugs.

Illegal immigration is a major problem in Oregon and one that Gov. Kulongoski and the legislature have chosen to ignore far too long.

The persecution of those who have responded to the inducements for a better life is not the answer. The answer lies in first removing the inducements and after having done so to begin a systematic attrition of those already present illegally. A tough employer sanction law similar to that in Arizona which punishes those who knowingly hire illegals must be accompanied by removal of access to government (state, county and local) programs — welfare, healthcare, and education. Pressure should then be applied to demand that the federal government enforce their immigration laws. Only when the federal government ignores such demands as it has in Arizona should Oregon’s law enforcement apparatus be deployed to do what the federal government has failed to do.

Hopefully Oregon will not have to adopt this latter course but given the attitude of President Obama and the Congress one should be prepared.

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  • current UO student

    “Now suddenly if you don’t have your papers and you took your kid out to get ice cream, you can be harassed, that’s something that could potentially happen.”

    You call that “playing the race card”? If you really think Arizona’s anti-latino laws aren’t racist then you must have your head up a klansman’s butt. You’re a dinosaur, buddy. Go away. Better yet, find a time machine and move to the DDR.

    • Rawhide

      UO student…….”Suddenly COULD potentially happen”….please tell me you don’t see where that comment is way out of line??? Think about it, if we all lived by that motto, IT could potentially happen that we get run over by a car, so we cant go outside today; IT could potentially happen that I win the jackpot, so I will buy a a ticket today, IT could potentially happen that we drop dead today……..and in YOUR case…..GO FOR IT. Accusing Mr. Huss of having his head up some Kansman’s butt is out of line. NOW, take a moment and debate him on facts as it pertains to the AZ law, the federal law and the impact as you see it based on facts, NOT allegations based on stupidity. I’m waiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It might help if you read the law and understood the social and finacial impact that illegal immigration has on your State and every other State. One last thing, if I were a betting man, I’d say you didn’t serve one day in the US military defending this great country. And for the record, I support the federal government getting a handle on the 11 million illegal immigrants. Deportation is NOT the answer because a large percentage are contributing to our economy and this I realize. However, stopping the furtherance of illegal immigrations, over staying their VISA and DEPORTING immigrants that have committed crimes are a MUST. If you EVER walked into a flop house and witnessed first hand the conditions that these young girls and boys and their families are facing due to human smuggling, drugs forced labor etc etc etc, YOU would change your tune in half a heart beat…if you had one!!!

      • current UO student

        WHAT?! “One last thing, if I were a betting man, I’d say you didn’t serve one day in the US military defending this great country.” What kind of wingnut jackass are you? Since when does one’s status as a military vet have anything to do with one’s ability to identify racism? And, no, I have not served. My father, A VIET NAM VET ASKED ME NOT TO, so go suck a dick “Rawhide”. And keep your assumptions to yourself. I never said I support illegal immigration or not deporting criminals, and I don’t buy your false compassion… What I do have a problem with is when people who are here legally, whether by legal immigration or birth, can legally be harassed by “the authorities” because they “look illegal”. If you don’t understand how that is a problem then I’m guessing you’re too stupid to understand the DDR reference?

        • Rupert in Springfield

          When your only argument is that if someone doesn’t think the way you do then they are a Klansman, then that brings up an interesting situation:

          If you are a first year student, then perhaps taxpayers are getting a reasonable return on their investment. This is of course assuming that by year four your ability to argue a position improves beyond is current level.

          If you are beyond a first year student, then clearly taxpayers are getting little for their investment. Subsidizing someone whose argument for their position coming out of the gate is “oh yeah, well, you’re stupid” doesn’t speak well to the use of funds to educate them.

          No matter what ones opinion on the law – the fact that a college student cannot think of a better argument than simply insisting someone who doesn’t agree with him is a Klansman is more than a little worrisome.

          • Anonymous

            I’ll care what you think when you say something of value.

            And the fact of the matter is I used an inductive argument. If the premise is true, then it is unlikely that the conclusion is false. The premise being that if Larry (and let’s add you to the list) truly believes that the Arizona law is not racist, then his head must be up a klansman’s butt. I never called anyone in particular a klansman, I posited that his head was up one’s butt. I really didn’t expect anyone to take that literally. Then again, you would have to be a fairly strong reader to pick up on that, wouldn’t you? And I guess you’re not.

            And please don’t respond, there’s no need for another ad hominem from you wherein you’ll just accuse me of being a member of the unthinking liberal hive mind that makes your view of reality possible. Because racism couldn’t possibly exist, right? It’s just a myth invented by the liberal elite. Go back to your garage and light a fart, loser.

          • Rupert in Springfield

            >And the fact of the matter is I used an inductive argument.

            Well when you can get the name you use with your posts with some consistency so we know who you are or what you are talking about, then we can listen to your expositions on logic. Until then you are another nonsensical anonymous guy yapping away.

            Please – next time – before you try the inductive logic routine, get your name right on your posts.

        • Steve Plunk

          That’s incredible. The student attacks with vitriol minus facts and then gets his feelings hurt when he gets a little back. I hope U of O is producing better thinkers than that.

          • Anonymous

            I’m incredible! More like incredulous! Where was my vitriol? What facts do you need? I questioned Huss’s ridiculous characterization of an Obama quote as “playing the race card”. And then some guy attacks me for not serving in the military? WTF? When my father holds a purple heart for his service in Viet Nam, and more relatives than I can count on one hand were killed in Korea and WW2 before I was even born. That’s cheap. Really cheap. And then the resident blowhard and his sidekick attack my intelligence? And the efficacy of my education? Crazy! Meanwhile I fully support sane immigration reform, but if the only solution that Arizona/Kansas can come up with is reducing the U.S. to a police state, no thanks, I’ll pass. You libertarians enjoy though. That makes a whole lot of sense. Thank God we’re not depending on this website to produce thinkers for us.

          • Steve Plunk

            Claiming someone has their head up a klansman’s behind is vitriol. Calling someone a dinosaur is just immature. As for facts you gave none. Making such statements will always get your intelligence and/or education questioned. I would always keep in mind the old saying, “better to be silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt”.

            The idea of asking for valid ID does not makes us a police state. ID has been required for decades. I don’t really like the idea we have to show it but try not showing it and see what the police do. We show ID at banks, grocery stores and even Universities. Arizona is acting no different than any other state. If anyone is racist I would suggest looking at LaRaza or Mencha. Both organizations are blatantly racist.

          • Ron Marquez

            …..”If anyone is racist I would suggest looking at LaRaza or Mencha. Both organizations are blatantly racist.”…..

            Steve’s got a point, college boy. You agree of course, don’t you.

          • current UO student

            A point about NCLR and MEChA? I suppose he does, but I never made any claims or defenses of either organization, did I? Do two wrongs make a right in your tiny little world, d-bag?

        • Ron Marquez

          You might want to think about cleaning up your language, little boy. Might give you a little credibility with the adults who share ideas and opinions here.

          • current UO student

            What language would that be, jagoff? And maybe you ought to think about toning down your empty condescension? You all can gang up on me, call me things like “college boy”, and otherwise mock me for pursuing an education, but it doesn’t make you right or any less ignorant, and is of no consequence to me.

          • Ron Marquez

            I didn’t hear anybody mocking you for pursuing an education. And you’re right about my calling you “little boy” and “college boy”…..neither was intended as a compliment.

            I won’t back off on your foul mouth and can’t wait until you graduate and meet your first prospective employer. Be sure when he rubs you the wrong way to ask him if…..

            …..he has his head up his or somebody else’s butt
            …..he is a dinosaur or some other prehistoric creature.
            …..he sucks dicks.

            He will surely be impressed with your candor.

          • Anonymous

            “I didn’t hear anybody mocking you for pursuing an education. And you’re right about my calling you “little boy” and “college boy”…..neither was intended as a compliment.”

            Calling me “little boy” and “college boy” is tantamount to mocking me for pursuing an education. You can rationalize

            “I won’t back off on your foul mouth and can’t wait until you graduate and meet your first prospective employer. Be sure when he rubs you the wrong way to ask him if…..”

            Yeah, because I haven’t been working since I was fourteen years old, and I don’t own a home and pay taxes.

            “…..he has his head up his or somebody else’s butt”

            That you are humorless is no surprise.

            “…..he is a dinosaur or some other prehistoric creature.”

            There is absolutely nothing offensive about that. The word is in common usage and implies that one is outmoded and anachronistic. Larry Huss is both of those things in my opinion, and I’m sure many others who don’t waste their time on this little blog would agree.

            …..he sucks dicks.

            As far as I’m concerned that comment has nothing to do with you and was a perfectly appropriate response to “Rawhide’s” unwarranted and pointless attack on my military status, and his suggestion that I drop dead because I hold a different point of view than his. But I guess you find Rawhide to be the impressive type. Good for you.

            “He will surely be impressed with your candor.”

            Yeah, most are impressed with my candor and my intelligence. I’m not the least bit concerned, on the other hand, what narrow-minded oregoncatalyst wingnuts like yourself think. I don’t expect I’ll have any problems.

          • Steve Plunk

            Keep pursuing that education. So far it’s gotten away from you. Two wrongs don’t make a right but my point was about real racism versus hyperbole. The Arizona law is much ado about nothing.

          • Anonymous

            Says you, Steve. My professors seem to think otherwise.

            You are welcome to your opinion, but my opinion is that the Arizona law is a policy that will foster very REAL manifestations of racism. Furthermore, I know that I am not the only one who feels that way, so I also feel fairly comfortable with my stated opposition (though I would be quite comfortable with it regardless).

          • Rupert in Springfield

            I think given the pretty lousy arguments we are seeing here the taxpayers should be outraged they are subsidizing this guys education.

            Seriously are there any entrance standards to public college any more?

            This is ridiculous.

          • current UO student

            Seriously? That’s all you got? I’ll keep my 4.1 GPA and the .015 cents you contributed to my education and do my best to see that rubes like you have as little influence in our democracy as possible. Chump.

    • Mary’s Opinion

      The language becomes more crude as the discussion progresses. It does nothing to elevate the level of intelligent debate.
      I support Arizona. But my first reaction when hearing about the new law was the realization that it would be called racial profiling. But the federal government is unwilling to effectively protect the borders of this country. It is also unwilling to enforce laws already on the books and in place regarding illegal immigrants.
      If you have traveled outside of this country, you know you are required to carry appropriate identification papers. In fact you can not get into countries abroad without proper identification.
      As an unemployed Oregonian, I feel discriminated against when an employment “ad” clearly calls for applicants with bilingual skills. You know I don’t mean french or swedish. I wonder how many of that company’s customers or clients are in Oregon illegally.
      Neither Arizona, Oregon or the rest of the U.S. can afford to ignore illegal immigration any longer.

      • Scottiebill

        You’re right Mary. But the college boy is just following the example laid down daily by the libs: When they have no cogent, intelligent reply to any criticism against what they have posited, they revert to inane and disparaging insults that have nothing to do with anything, except to blatantly show off their abject ignorance and/or stupidity, to say nothing of an obvious lack of any kind of basic vocabulary. The college boy can have his ignorance cured through education (although it looks like UO is not getting that done for him), but stupid goes on forever.

        William F. Buckley wrote: ‘Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but than are shocked and offended that there are other views.” That one sentence seems to describe the college boy perfectly.

        • current UO student

          God only knows why I’m even bothering to reply here, but I must admit that it really is amusing to see that the folks around here actually regard themselves as the keepers of wisdom and intellect (hint: You’re not. With respect to Steve Buckstein, the rest of you are a bunch of drooling morons), Oregon’s last line of defense against the uneducated, unthinking masses. As if pluralism and liberty were central to the ideologies being promoted here. What a joke.

          You quote William F. Buckley as though I had responded with shock and offense at Larry Huss’ view. I didn’t. He can have his view, and Arizona can pass whatever laws they choose, but I can ridicule him (as you all have me) and avoid Arizona (as tens of millions of dollars have since the bills passing). But you might think about re-examining your use of that quotation. Maybe apply it to yourself? Or do you admit that you begin every discussion with no interest in hearing other views?

          As for my having no cogent, intelligent reply to any criticism… um… the initial criticism from “Rawhide” included an empty attack on my character and the suggestion that I drop dead. How cogent and intelligent of “Rawhide”, not inane and disparaging at all, right? And sure enough, the simpleminds of “the catalyst” attack the only thing that they have to attack, my status as a student. How pathetic and predictable. So, I’ll say it one more time, I have no issue with immigration reform. Illegal immigration is clearly a problem. But, discussion of this particular policy will, as Mary herself noticed immediately, be reduced to a discussion of racial profiling. What it comes down to is whether or not one regards racial profiling as acceptable in these circumstances or not. I do not. In an airport security line, I do.

          Why do I not? Because I have witnessed first hand… wait for it… racism… in that part of the country… from local law enforcement and civilians alike, and I don’t need you or anyone else’s permission or approval to believe my own eyes. I know it’s real, and I know it is inappropriate for state government to institutionalize a legal pathway for the expression of that racism.

          As for the economic consequences of illegal immigration, I’ve heard all the arguments and I’m not convinced one way or the other. The numbers (both costs and benefits) are for the most part speculation, and it could go either way. One thing that seems certain though is that this law will cost Arizona’s millions, if not billions, of dollars in lost revenues. The free market is such a slippery beast, isn’t it?

          Shame about the 2012 Republican Convention not being held in Phoenix… I wonder why that decision was made?

    • Anonymous

      Maybe some people should also read:

      Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada

      From a CNN article on June 24, 2004:
      “Hiibel had violated a Nevada statute that requires persons temporarily detained on “reasonable suspicion” of criminal activity to identify themselves to a police officer.

      Hiibel — who claimed he had done nothing wrong and was simply the victim of mistaken identity — believed he had no obligation to tell the officer his name.

      But the Court found that neither Hiibel’s Fourth Amendment right against unreasonable searches and seizures, nor his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination, was violated.”

      • current UO student

        Well, you guys are all obviously legal and economic experts, so I suppose I should apologize for having an opinion. My bad. I’m sure things will all work out for the best in Arizona. In fact, now that I’ve been set straight I am certain it is the best conceivable immigration policy to have ever been put in place. Every other border state is sure to follow in Arizona’s footsteps. State power! State power! Hoorah!

        I humbly bow to the wisdom of the “adults”. What would the world do without you?

  • Anonymous

    “Now suddenly if you don’t have your papers and you took your kid out to get ice cream, you can be harassed, that’s something that could potentially happen.”

    You call that “playing the race card”? If you really think Arizona’s anti-latino laws aren’t racist then you must have your head up a klansman’s butt. You’re a *dinosaur*, buddy. Go away. Better yet, find a time machine and move to the DDR.

  • Rawhide

    I commend Larry Huss for writting this article. The comment you received are unjust and uncalled for. You articulated the concerns you are facing in Oregan and the finacial status of the State as a direct result of the burdon caused with illegal immigration. The truth to the matter is far too many people are putting their heads in the sand on this matter and others are blantantly accusing others that are challenging the Federal law with being a racist. I for one support Arizona for taking a stand. I read the law and wait for the first legal challenge so that it forces the federal government to make a ruling. The question is, what will the federal government rule…..support the State that wrote a law that enforces the federal law OR support illegal immigration. If it is to support illegal immigration then I support “squaters”. Let illigal immigrants claim the very spots they are staying as their own. Once those with their heads in the sand and those protesting AZ start loosing their land, property, rights, bennefits etc etc etc then they might just WAKE UP!!!!!!!! BTW, they are already loosing so much NOW but fail to acknowledge it because it is not affecting them directly, as they see it.

  • ja

    “Obama has shown a pronounced affinity for never letting the facts get in the way of demonizing those with whom he disagrees.”
    Something the Republicans have done better then Democrats for years. Always made the Dem’s look like pansy’s trying to stick to the real story and get by. They got crushed every time.

  • me

    Dear Sir/Madam

    My family and I came over to America in the fall of 2004 (Thanks given day actually),looking forward to living the American dream
    we purchased a restaurant in Nevada and were granted a five year visa,
    within a year the landlord (a crook of magnitude) of the plaza we were on, filed for bankruptcy
    we lost everything all our life savings $165,000+. we where now stuck here with no way of getting home
    we called the British embassy in LA and they told us to borrow money from family back home to get us to the UK.
    so i done what i have always tried to do, i worked, luckily i have a trade and i am good at what i do. we planned on saving enough to get us home
    but then the recession hit double whammy. but through out this all we still want to live in the USA (our children are in school one doing Honor classes), the people are friendly the way of life is fantastic
    (when you have money). i have tried to start a company but with recession it is hard to get the work at the moment, i then intend to employ Americans
    i have already done so in the past year, but in another smart decision we moved to Arizona two years ago. all illegals should not be tarred with the same brush
    and as a christian surely you should realize this. The criminal faction OK arrest then send home but us who want to work pay our taxes and live honest lives should be given the chance.
    why not have us illegals do community service for the government, lets say help build the wall across the border to protect your country from the drug cartels (who will get in what ever you try to do.)
    your country was built on the blood of immigrants and unlike in England where immigrants just want to live of the state (socialism for you, and another reason we moved out) the immigrants i have met over here legal and illegal all want to work.
    you are going to get the criminal factions where ever you are even in well paid affluent areas, so to say that all illegals are criminals is stupid.
    My sister came over in the late 70`s after marrying a service man and if she was still alive (killed by drunk driver) she would been able to sponsor us in.
    our children two of which wish to join your millitary but do to our status cannot.
    and the most scary thing is if we had $5500,000 we can go into a goverment scheme where we will be given a Greencard plus 8% of the $550k for three years and then given back $500k
    and keep our green cards, or if we invest $1,000,000 we can purchase a Mcdonalds Franchise and be given a green card and then can sell the Franchise on maybe for a profit, now as normal working class people
    we dont have access to that kind of money,but surley criminals groups and worst of all terrorist cells do.

    it took me 18 months and $10000 to get us over here, six months for a crook to take away our business, 4 years of hard work trying to stay in your country.


  • Rick Hickey

    Yo people! B.O.L.I. is exempt from our stupid Sanctuary law-ors 181.050, So? They could require all Employers to verify that S.S.# that new hire just provided, free and fast with 96% accurate E-Verify.

    ALLEN ALLEY would do this and at least 100,000 Jobs now stolen away by illegals, would be opened up to us instead. Hello?

    Dudley said at Dorchester “We need these workers”.

    Basketball player supporting criminals or business man supporting Americans? DUH!

    Should illegals be tied up in their underwear and tortured, 50 people crammed into one 900 sq. ft. home, going to the toilet in a bucket? NO! In AZ. they find one of these almost every week but here they never do because our Cops wont’/can’t look for it, BUT people are being tortured here too and the drug cartels are getting away with it.

  • Rawhide

    Malcom, saving up and investing in your business and loosing it all is just how the American dream unfolds for so many of us. Its a fact of living. As for your status, I agree with you in many ways, you would fall into the area that I say the government should work with to get legal. However, I ask one question, your visa expired. What did you do about it, if anything? Seriously, I have wants and desires but if I went to England and my visa said five years, I know one thing, I would have to return in five years or become a citizen. If that did not happen, I would return and reapply. I can see immigrants that come from third world staying. That I get, but they should know that once caught, they will be returned. The MAJOR problem is our country is soft on overstaying visas and illegal immigration. That’s a fact.

  • Rupert in Springfield

    The one thing this does is really demonstrate the lefts incredible problem with issues of race. Its why a liberal yelling racism is about as useless a thing as one can imagine.

    Read the AZ law.

    Compare to federal law we have had for years.

    I did and the federal law has a way looser standard. Federal agents can stop you if they simply believe you are here illegally. The AZ law requires reasonable suspicion someone is here illegally, a much higher standard.

    So unless all the high and mighty ninnies who are yammering about how racist the AZ law is can point to their own history of working to overturn the federal law, please understand if we all laugh at your new found racial sensitivity.

    You aren’t concerned about racism at all, you are simply going with what the liberal hive mind has come up with as the appropriate response.

    • Mary’s Opinion

      Rupert – very well said!

  • Anonymous

    When did illegal alien become a race of people? The Arizona law is not about race. Besides, federal laws make it a crime to be in the country illegally. Arizona is just going to enforce federal laws. How is this a problem? Doesn’t “illegal” actually mean “against the law”?

    • Bad Man

      Illegal Alien became a “race” isssue because over 90% of the ILLEGALS in this country are from either Mexico or Central America.

      • Anonymous

        Wow, you’re full of crap! Being Mexican a nationality, not a race.

  • eagle eye

    I don’t see what is so bad about Obama’s statement. OK, the law doesn’t allow the cops to stop just anyone, they have to have reason to suspect some wrongdoing (other than illegality). But the whole idea is to identify and deal with illegals and their families, isn’t it? I take the family out for ice cream, maybe I have tail light that’s not working. I get asked for my “documentation”, I don’t have it on me because I have none. The kids and I and maybe the spouse if I have one get sent packing back to Mexico. Isn’t that the idea?

    Maybe that’s OK, but why be disingenuous about it? Obama’s trying to arouse sympathy for this scenario. Maybe it’s not “harrassment” to send illegals packing or even to ask for their “documentation”. (Don’t I have to show my driver’s license if I get pulled over?) If sympathy is not called for, fine, say so, but don’t pretend this isn’t what it’s about.

    And I didn’t hear Obama pulling the “race card”. But doesn’t everyone know that in 90% of cases (or more) we’re talking about poor people from Latin America, especially Mexico?

  • Scatcatpdx

    “Now suddenly if you don’t have your papers and you took your kid out to get ice cream, you can be harassed, that’s something that could potentially happen.”

    Also wearing an American flag, possessing one own prescription medication, taking a squirt gun to school or a Jolly Roger candy.

    There are many examples why zero tolerance and giving more power to government is a bad idea. It doe lead to abuse and over enforcement. A better law is deal with the small minority of immigrant criminals and integration more immigrates into American life and make immigration easy as it was in the original 13 colonies.

  • dartagnan

    There’s nothing at all racist about the Arizona immigration law. I’m sure the cops are going to stop and hassle blond, blue-eyed, white-skinned people on an equal basis with brown-skinned people. After all, they might be illegal immigrants from Sweden.

    • Rupert in Springfield

      Um, not sure if you checked but I don’t think we have much of an illegal immigration problem with Sweden.

      But, if you are going to get all choked up about disproportionate effects, perhaps you would like to start arguing rape laws are sexist?

      I mean surely the police are engaging in profiling when they only suspect men as criminals when women are raped?

      • dartagnan

        Rupe, that’s a sophistic argument and you know it. Men are “targeted” in rape investigations because only men are physically capable of rape. Hispanics will be targeted by police in Arizona because they have brown skin. Even Hispanics whose families have legally been in this country for generations are going to be stopped and told to “produce your papers.” The whole business seems like something that would have gone on in Nazi Germany or the old Soviet Bloc nations rather than something that should be happening in America.

        • eagle eye

          The comparison with Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union is absurd. Nobody is talking about sending law-abiding people off to camps or the gulag, or sending law-breakers there either, for that matter. There are plenty of places — all civilized countries? — that demand that aliens produce some kind of documentation on reasonable demand. While abroad, I always carry my passport and have multiple copies handy. It’s never occurred to me to feel put upon and in fact I feel much, much more secure knowing that I can document my identity in a foreign country.

          If we cannot police our borders, what do you suggest instead? Open borders? Free immigration? That is an arguable position — it is one the Wall St. Journal has held. Then the American people need to be convinced. It will be a tough sell.

          • David From Eugene

            The question is Eagle eye do you routinely carry your passport or proof of Citizenship with you when traveling in the United States? So if some Arizona cop decides he has reasonable suspicion that you are a European Illegal can you prove you are not? Not all Illegal Aliens are Hispanic, the come from every nation in the world.

            As for locking up US Citizens by mistake the INS has done it, and in at least on case they deported a US Citizen and it only took him two years to prove them wrong.

          • eagle eye

            I carry my driver’s license. The cops could easily check that it goes back many years. If necessary, I could produce my passport, or in principle the cops could check that I have one. I can produce a birth certificate. Might the cops mistake me for a European illegal? Probably not if they can recognize an American accent. Some cop might mistake me for a German or Italian, but I don’t think it would go very far.

            Perhaps the requirements for documentation will increase in the future. If so, it will be because we neglected the illegal entry problem for decades. It won’t be easy to fix. The state actions are an alarming symptom of the failure of the federal government, whose responsibility it mainly is, to do its job.

            There unfortunately will always be mistakes and injustices as a result of enforcing any law.

            Again, should we have open immigration and borders? Do other countries? Do other countries manage to enforce their immigration laws? If so, are we that incapable?

  • get real

    Here is Arizona’s law, read it then discuss the facts stop making up lies and calling people names.
    We don’t live in the 1780’s anymore and we don’t have 13 colonies…we have states…illegal Mexican immigrants do not have the right to gain citizenship ahead of others that have been waiting for years and following the rules. This country is run on rules, let’s follow them instead of protesting against them.


  • cecil

    OMG! Arizona is going to enforce federal immigration laws!! YAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!! They haven’t even started and already Arizonans are KKK, the Gestapo, the Brown Shirts, the Jack Boot Skinheads. OHHHHH THE HUMANITY!!! Think of it!! SOmeone may end up going back to their own country. CAN YOU IMAGINE THE HORROR OF THAT??????????????????????? ABSOLUTELY UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Course, when American citizens go to Mexico it is perfectly normal for us to be asked for our visa papers. Doesn’t even make the news. Oh but just try and ask a Hispanic here for papers and YAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Liberalism is a mental disorder.

  • Rupert in Springfield

    You would think that the people who say the AZ law is racist would read the federal law and realize it is impossible to argue the AZ law is racist without also condemning thee Federal law.

    The fact that these people all of a sudden find racial fault with the AZ law, when they have previously found no fault with Federal law tells you all you need to know.

    They are dupes who have been told what to think and what to be outraged about.

  • Anonymous

    It’s not law enforcment’s fault that hispanics are rmore suspected as possibly illegal.

    It’s the hispanics’ fault for coming her illegally in vast numbers.

    If it were Swedes coming here illegally by th emany millions they would be having the same problem.

    • David from Eugene

      So let me see if I understand you, if there was suddenly a flood of illegal immigrants from Central Europe in this area you would have no problem being arrested and incarcerated because you are not carrying the proper papers, because it is you fault that the illegals came from Central Europe.

      • Anonymous

        Dave, You may be on to something. Let’s encourage illegal aliens to come from Northern Europe. After all, they’re better looking.

        • David From Eugene

          We don’t need to encourage them they are already coming here.

  • David from Eugene

    The main problem with both the Arizona Law and the Federal requirement that lawful immigrants produce their papers on request is that there are two groups that do not have papers to produce the illegal immigrant and the Native Born American Citizens. Naturalized Citizens have their Certificate of Naturalization; the Tourist has his Nation’s passport with a US Visa stamp and the Lawful Immigrant has his Green Card. Granted it is possible for a Native Born American Citizen to get a US Passport and carry that to prove his right to be in the United States, but that is expensive, time consuming and generally a headache. But other then that how does a Native Born American prove his right to be in the United States?

    The other problem is the Judicial Concept of Innocent till proven Guilty; that the government has the burden of proof to show that an individual is here illegally not the individual’s responsibility to show he is here legally. For while Tourists and Lawful are mandated to show their papers on request; American Citizens are not under a similar mandate. So exactly what is an Officer of the Law to do when he stops someone to “ask for their papers” and that individual tells him that he is a Native Born American Citizen?

    Which brings us to the kernel of truth behind the “racism” charge; there are a large number of Native Born American Citizens of Latino or Hispanic heritage residing through out the American South West. In some cases they can trace their linage back to ancestors that lived in the South West before the American Revolution. Since many of these individuals resemble in appearance illegal immigrants coming from Mexico and Latin America it is likely that they will be stopped and ask for their papers; making them a victim of racial profiling.

    All this raises an important question, short of requiring every one to carrying a National Photo ID Card with biometric data encoded, how do we enforce our Immigration Laws away from the Border?

  • Anonymous

    If there were millions of european illegal aliens here and I were pullerd over for speeding I would be speaking english and have a driver’s license. There would be nothing supsicious about my legality for police to ask about.

    Now constrast that with a hispanic driver pulled over in Arizona for speeding and he has no driver’s license and doesn’t speak english. That is reason to supect he is illegal.

    There is nothing racist about then checking his status.

    • Anonymous

      I am not aware of anybody suggesting that would be racist.

    • David From Eugene

      There are already millions of illegal European Aliens in the United States. So the Arizona cop sees your Italian Suit, the Italian sounding name on your license, speaks a little broken Italian to you, you reply and “knowing that real Americans speak only English” he arrests you and carts you away to jail.

  • Anonymous

    “There is nothing racist about then checking his status.”
    #18 Anonymous on 2010-05-13 21:45

    What planet are you on.

    That’s exactly what the Arizona law requires law enforcement to do and the entire left wing has been screaming/lying how racist it is.

    David from Eugene, that was incoherent. The only way the Italian gets carted off to jail for a traffic stop is if he had no license, no other ID and/or some other factor.

    But you’re free to follow the left wing and gin up any BS imaginable.

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  • jade

    You can call it whatever you want but the problem still remains that ILLEGAL immigrants cost Americans billions of dollars every year. If you don’t think so go live in a poverty area for a month you’ll see exactly what I’m talking about. I am a proud American that has six kids, I’m not on welfare my husband and I work hard to support our family but still struggle. While the illegal immigrants that live a few doors down live with the girlfriend and her two children, they pay no rent, they do not work, they do not help the mother with her two young kids, no they take the little bit of money she gets a month from tanf and gambles it. The entire household of 2 children 1 mother and 4 illegal immigrants pay 25.00 a month for rent and not one person in that home works.Not to mention the healthcare, foodstamps, util assistance and any other government help they are getting. That is just one family. Another one ILLEGAL immigrants a few doors down the other way they are prostitutes. Now I have Johns picking them up all hours right outside my front door while my six children, husband and I are asleep. Isn’t that a lovely thought to sleep to- oh yeah and lets not forget all the drugdeals made in front of my house – hope none of them ever go bad for my families sake. OPEN YOUR EYES it’s not racism it’s what they cost us to be here illegally, it’s the jobs they cost us because they will work for less than minimum wage, it’s the law. If you don’t mind living with them then move to Mexico.

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