Ugly Details Emerge on New Tax Plan

The new Democrat proposal for a massive corporate minimum tax is beginning to surface. Some peg the cost of the new tax as high as a half billion dollars or more. Although details are sketchy here is what it is looking like:

– It taxes all sorts of business scenarios so that government will not lose any money when companies do not make profits.

– It models itself after New Hampshire tax structure.

– They are calling part of it a “business protection fee”. How you protect business by taxing them is beyond me.

– Just like they tied the tobacco tax to children’s health care and the car tax to state troopers, they are trying to tie this tax to pork projects for our colleges, head start, and death tax relief for only “targeted” estate taxpayers such farmers and foresters.

– They also want to use the new rush of tax dollars to then hand it back to businesses in the forms of tax credits to show how generous and compassionate the politicians are by giving back what they took. The politicians aim these tax credits for only businesses that spend money in the way that politicians think is best.

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  • Jerry

    I would rename it the “business extortion fee”. These people are completely insane.

  • Steve Plunk

    Now is the time for the Republican party to show us what it’s made of and stop this nonsense. Record revenues and they want more?

    • jack

      Cool4you,guys.

    • jack

      Hi . Keep up the good work . Nice info.

  • Jerry

    The Repubs are not made of much. They have lost the will to fight. They almost all are RINOS. I am deeply ashamed to be a registered repub as they have deserted the party.

    • CRAWDUDE

      GW and the GOPers in this state drove me out of their party. I joined the Libertarians, they may not win any elections but at least power hasn’t corrupted them and they actually stand for something other than sound bites and lies.

      • geoffludt

        Only if you can stand their incessant focus on left-field issues like marijuana legalization. I personally think I am a Libertarian as well but the party’s focus is too far off for me to take seriously.

  • Tommy

    I personally think this is a total waste. By adding the 84.5 cents tax increase to a pack of cigarettes is not the way to fund these plans. The source needs to be coming from something in which it is more reliable than imposing the tax increase.

  • Anonymous

    “Business protection fee”?

    What is this, the Mafia?

    “Nice restaurant you got here… would be a shame if something were to happen to it… Of course, for a small fee, we can protect your business… make sure nothing bad happens…”

    • CRAWDUDE

      Good one!

  • jeff

    “Business Protection Fee” makes a lot of sense as a label when you consider what the Mafia does is called a “Business Protection Racket.”

  • baldeagle

    The average minimum tax for corporations proposed is $138. The corporate minimum activity tax is pre-deduction on wages, dividends and interest earnings of all of the states’s corporations required to pay taxes on their income at a rate of 0.25. $138

    A tax credit is proposed for investments in plant or equipment made in companies with an Oregon presence. It is a common sense proposal to help retain corporations in Oregon.

    Right now the reason Oregon has one of the lowest credit ratings in the country is because a $10 buck minimum corporate tax is unchanged since 1931.

    Fits and tizzies don’t address the inequalities of our tax system. The Oregon bond rating needs boosting to allow the state to borrow at less cost to us taxpayers. Do not call $138 a massive corporate tax increase.

    • Anonymous

      I can tell you for sure this is one business Oregon will not retain. With our leaving because of the states heavy handed practices, we will leave 10 people unemployed and take our business elsewhere. Also a couple hundred thousand dollars the state won’t get. Multiply that by others that think the same way. Obviously you are not or never have been in businss. Walk in our shoes for a while, then tell me the same thing

      • Idahoan

        Come to Idaho like Buck Knives did…much friendlier business climate.

        • Anonymous

          Idaho or Nevada

      • Anonymous

        How do you know? because he believes that an average tax of 138 bucks isn’t that much? get real. it’s peanuts for a business and isn’t worth the crying and whining going on by the republicans. they are trying to make it political and not include the true cost to business because they know when people see it’s only 138 bucks, they are going to look like pansies for crying about it. if this really bothered you and you were going to leave, why haven’t you left already? crap or get off the pot. quit threatening and do.

        • Anonymous

          iT’S IN THE WORKS

    • Anonymous

      Baldeagle writes: “The Oregon bond rating needs boosting to allow the state to borrow at less cost to us taxpayers.” Does it? The people who create bond ratings care only about a state’s ability to repay debt. They care nothing about the need for the debt, the long term damage to future generations, or the harm to present taxpayers. A far better approach is for the state to borrow less. It is the best possible gift to the future.

  • Sassy

    Yikes!

    After hearing all this stuff, I am not sure I want to START a business!

    Is there any good news at all? Anything positive?

    • Anonymous

      There are positive things. Unfortunately, at least in Oregon, our greedy politicians won’t let us have them. I like being in business, I like the challenge, but when you’re weighed down by idiots posing as leaders, it’s a lost cause. We’ll just move the business to another state.

    • Ted Kennedy’s Liver

      The good new is that if you’re in Portland, Washington is right across the bridge.

  • Jerry

    baldeagle – man, figure it out. Oregon should not be borrowing ANY money – the state is awash in tax receipts – there is no sane reason to ask corporations to pay more in taxes to fund borrowing. The reason Oregon can not borrow at good rates is that the state is a business joke and the marketplace reflects that. No one in their right mind wants to loan money to someone who can not control their spending.
    Do you ever wonder (I doubt it, though) why a “backwards” state like Arkansas has 5 Fortune 500 companies headquartered in its state and Oregon only 1???

    People who think like you never act like you want others to. Do you, each payday, cash your check and then head down the streets of Portland giving it away to those “in need”? I did not think so.
    So why do you want others to do just that? So you will feel better?
    So things will be more “fair”?

    How anyone can “think” like you do is beyond me. Did you ever take an econ course in college? Do you understand the free market? Do you know how much wanton waste there is in Oregon state government?

    Just curious….

    • Smarty Pants

      hey, pop quiz smarty pants. How many Fortune 500 companies have left Oregon for other states? 4? 3? 2? 1? 0? How many Fortune 500 companies started here? just curious

      maybe people in oregon are retarded and can’t create a business plan that gets them to the Fortune 500 in the first place but those in arkansas can. hmmm… just a thought.

  • baldeagle

    Here’s why corporations need to pay corporate taxes.

    Oregon ranks 49th out of 50 states in burdening individual tax payers by taxing their income tax and property taxes because they don’t tax corporations.

    It is disgusting that corporations are taxed $10 per year since 1931. It is disgusting that Oregon tax payers on the Republican side can’t see that supporting no taxes on corporations means us individual taxpayers are getting killed.

    Oregon is ranked 12th out of 50 states in new companies BECAUSE THE COMPANIES DON”T HAVE TO PAY CORPORATE INCOME TAXES.

    Jerry your favorite state Arkansas,has the second lowest housing prices in the country, ranks 46th in disparity between highest and lowest incomes, is ranked 45th in people who live below the poverty line and 47th in household incomes. If thats not good enough there’s always Mississippi or Lousiana. The reason your favorite state has 5 Fortune 500 companies is obvious..they pay low wages there…profit is the bottom line.

    Oregon’s tax system is out of whack.

    • Anonymous

      What do you think a corporation is anyway? It is not a giant beast come to devour you. A Corporation is a group of people like you and me who invest their time and yes their money to make more money. Just like you do on your job. You invest your time and sometimes your money into your job, why. To make money of course. If you want to punish the people who are making their living from a corporation, you are punishing yourself. Who in the heck do you think gives you your paycheck?

    • Brad

      Do you really think Oregon will start taxing us individual taxpayers any less if they do increase the corporate taxes? Get real. Instead of spending the money they already get wisely, they would rather just make up new taxes. Eventually the people will have to put a stop to it, and unfortunately, I suspect it won’t be pretty…..

  • baldeagle

    There are different tax implications for corporations instead of individual tax payers. For 76 years corporations have paid $10 per year for doing business in Oregon. The law has not been changed since 1931 yet population has grown, more roads, police and fire protection are needed, class sizes are swelling, the school year is shorter, and the fees we pay are lower than most other states.

    Taxing corporations would stablilize the revenue in Oregon to support services. Every one who cries waste will need to provide a list of that waste because our state has been going downhill for a long long time and it’s not because of waste, it’s because corporations are getting a free ride in Oregon. Corporations employ hundreds of lobbyists to buy political power in Salem. They support websites like this one so they can brainwash people into simple bumper sticker thinking..no new taxes, waste, waste, waste…well I’d like a good discussion on spreading the tax burden to corporations while protecting small businesses.

    We need to start asking the right questions and seriously thinking about how to fund our state services and local services with everyone, including corporations, footing the bill.

    • Brad

      “It is disgusting that Oregon tax payers on the Republican side can’t see that supporting no taxes on corporations means us individual taxpayers are getting killed.”
      It isn’t that we’re against new taxes for corporations, it’s that we’re against new taxes period. As if it even makes a difference what we want. The liberals are running the show, and have been for some time. You’re being intellectually dishonest and disingenuous to ignore your party’s involvement in the events that have led up to the current state of affairs. I agree we do need to start asking the right questions, it’s just too bad we can’t agree on what the definition of ‘right’ is……

      • Anonymous

        You’re right, we should have another Whiskey Rebellion. We shouldn’t be taxed for anything. But damn it, they better still provide us with all the services we love! i want my cake and to eat it to. NOW!

        • Chris McMullen

          Just what services are you talking about?

          Transportation? No new freeways have been built in the past 40 years, just light rail — with our taxes!! (Don’t let that federal tax BS fool you, we pretty much get back the same amount as we give).

          Schools? We pay more and more to schools, but they turn out some of the most uneducated students compared to other countries. All thanks to the teacher’s unions.

          Police and safety? Thanks to years of Democrat leadership, our State police is a fraction of what it once was.

          Any other ‘services’ are targeted towards low-lifes and special interest groups and are not used by the majority of taxpayers.

    • Owner

      Actually baldeagle – it’s folks like you who need to quit drinking the kool-aid. First Portland forced me out of it’s city due to Portland’s business tax and multnomah county’s business tax. I moved my, then small, business of 6 people outside multnomah county. I grew, I now have 44 people working for me. Trust me, it’s been a LONG time since I paid $10 as a tax for my company. However, I’m out of here – 17 people will be losing their jobs, the state will be losing that income tax money; there maybe more jobs lost if some of the employees don’t wish to come along. Adding just the taxes that this state will lose from my business moving alone will be over $120,000 (looking at individual income taxes, business taxes, etc.). That doesn’t take into account the number of other jobs this will affect in the way of my suppliers, distributors, etc

      Keep it up Oregon – how many more ‘family wage’ jobs are you willing to lose?

    • Anonymous

      I think you need to understand the difference in corporations. There are two classes of Corporation. One is a C Corporation which is taxed in Oregon at 6.6% of its taxable income this includes dividends paid to the shareholders, Then any dividends the shareholders receive are then taxed again on their personal return at their tax rate.
      The second corporation is a Sub Chapter S Corporation. This type of corporation does not pay tax on it’s profits, becausse the profits are all treated as distributed to the shareholders. These profits are taxed on the shareholders personal tax return at their tax rate. In Oregon that is 9% for most of us. The $10 the S Corporation pays is an excise tax, not related to income. If you understand these concepts you will see that much more is being paid in taxes from corporations than appears on the surface. I’ll be happy to work it out for you if you want to take your income an pretend you are a corporation. Then we’ll see if you feel the same. I doubt you will. Unless you are just pig headed.

    • Anonymous

      People in oregon are so spoiled. they have no idea how good they have it here. low fees, low taxes, no toll roads. back east everything costs higher. People here who think they have it bad are out of their mind and aren’t living in reality.

  • Jerry

    This baldeagle guy has shown his true colors. We are all evil, tax-hating bigots who don’t know anything. He is a wise, caring, loving individual who only wants what is best for all the peoples.

    Hey, baldeagle, you asked for specific areas of waste in Oregon. How about the Cultural Trust? How about in-state tuition for people who are not legally in our country? How about OPB? How about CIM/CAM? How about free health care to kids whose parents earn $70,000 a year? How about 2 billion in road taxes without one new road? Do you really need more examples?

    Plus, bald, you seem to forget that when corporations are forced to pay more taxes they pass those costs on to customers. It is not “free” money just waiting to be snatched by a benevolent government. It is our money – just a more circuitous way of getting it.

    I wonder where you work? Do you want them to be forced to pay more in taxes? What if that means lowering your salary so they can afford to do it? I doubt if you work in the private sector, though, so maybe you can disregard those questions.

    Your comment on new businesses flocking to Oregon is a joke. Can you name one of them who might be considered big? Even medium? Everyone is leaving or not expanding here. There is no big growth in new business in Oregon – nothing that is significant enough to make a difference.

    And all your wonderful stats on Arkansas. How insipid. If it was as bad there as you say people would move out and live in a utopia like Oregon. Right?

    Keep dreaming….and please, send some extra money to Salem, ON YOUR OWN VOLITION, so you can help make Oregon better. We need your money – everyone knows that. How can you be so cruel as to deny us more of your money?

    Wait, I almost forgot, maybe you don’t have any extra to spare….right?

    That must be it. It can’t be that you don’t want to give it – surely you would if you could….after all, it is the only fair thing to do.

    Without more of your money people will surely die in the streets….send it today.

    • CRAWDUDE

      Well said Jerry! One only has to go to Pioneer Place and see how many of the shops there are no longer leased (vacant) to see the damage that liberal governmental business policy creates. It creates a stifled economy, an economy like Oregon has! When I moved here in ’91 every space in Pioneer Place was utilized, last time I was down there about 20% were vacant and had been for a long time.

    • Anonymous

      His true colors? you mean that he can actually THINK, use FACTS and talk intelligently, unlike you? yeah, he was totally hiding that until just now! you just spew out crap that comes on the Oregon Taxpayer Association’s Talking Point Cards. you can’t even think for youself or give any facts or intellectual contribution to the thread!

      No one is moving out of Arkansas? of course they aren’t, because they can’t afford to. All thier wagons have broken wheels and they can’t afford to fix them.

      • Chris McMullen

        Really? Where are your ‘facts’ Anon? All I see out of you is juvenile invective. You’ve provided no ‘facts’ to counter Jerry’s argument.

  • Jerry

    Thanks Craw. People would have to be blind not to notice this stuff.
    Methinks some heads are in the sand.

  • believeitornot

    Republicans who have had partial or total control of the federal and state budget since 1994. Any waste can be laid squarely on the Republicans who have become the big-government free spending party. Unless taxes benefit large corporations they aren’t happy.

    The tax stool in Oregon only has two legs, property taxes and personal income tas paid by individual tax payers. The third leg is missing because Republicans don’t understand that taxes paid by corporations would balance the stool.

    • Sakaki

      Read the stuff on C Corporations and S Corporations, then start crying…because you will be found to be wrong.

    • Brad

      Republicans are solely to blame for the rampant waste of tax revenue in Oregon? The democrats are completely innocent? Thanks, I needed a good laugh. If the democrats are so good, why can’t they stop the evil republicans from spending so much on so little? They _are_ in control, after all. Face it, the liberals absolutely love to tax everyone except themselves. If being against new taxes makes me evil, so be it. At least I proofread my posts before submitting them…..

  • R Huse

    If your believe the $10 figure, please put your money where your mouth is.

    Start a type S corp, employ yourself, and see if you only wind up paying $10 a year.

    I own a type S, its easily found on the web.

    100% of my income is from a type S

    50% of my income goes to state and federal taxes.

    I make five figures.

    Damn those of you who take food from my kids table and then insist 50% is not enough.

    • A tax professional

      Very well said.

  • CRAWDUDE

    Folks, believeitorSNOT is a PERS plant, they put them out to try to make you feel your opinions are wrong. Let him spat his BS and don’t respond to it, he’ll be gone in no time and replacaced by another union drone! His handle with be relieveitorplot!

    Have a great weekend!

  • Jerry

    R Huse – RIGHT ON! None of these fools even know what a S corp is let alone would they ever be able to create a successful business on their own. Of that I am certain. Who among them is self-employed? Not one.

    How many use “free” WI-FI to connect to this site? It is not fair to make people pay for Internet access – as everyone knows.

    None of them actually use their own money (if they have any) to do what they want the state to do with our money, either. I am also certain of that. Otherwise, unsolicited checks would be pouring into Salem to “help” with the funding “crisis. Where are those checks?

    Poor people not only do not pay taxes, they don’t emply anone, create wealth, or anything else that helps the economy. The evil rich are the ones who carry all the weight. How many of you have ever worked for a poor person? Figure it out if you can.

    Class warfare at its finest. I almost (note I say almost) feel sorry for people who are so woefully ignorant of the facts and of almost any ecomomics. They must have gone to college in Oregon.

    Very sad and very pathetic.

    Maybe it wasn’t so bad when just landowners could vote….

  • beleiveitornot

    Oregon has a number of small businesses which are filing tax returns as sole proprietors, limited corporations or partnerships. As such, they are paying 9.1% on their earnings from business while the larger “C” corporations are paying the token $10 bucks or only 6.5% of their earnings. Approximately 35% of “C” corporations in Oregon pay more than $10 while 65% pay the token $10.

    “S” corporations, a section in the IRS code is like an LLC or partnership in which all tax liability transfers to the individual owners which is almost always a small corporation.

    Oregon is ranked 49th out of 50 states for having the highest income taxes in the nation.

  • CRAWDUDE

    State your source, the Oregonian had an article out a few weeks ago ranking state tax burdens. Oregon was ranked 4th for it’s 9 percent income tax and 24 for it’s over all tax burden. While middle of the packed would seem okay; it’s not too good considering Oregon is bringing up the rear in per capita earning for a family of 4).

  • Jerry

    The trouble with all the tax stats people quote is that they are geared for average families. Trust me, if you own property in Oregon of any significant value then your total tax burden is VERY high relative to the rest of the country. If rent, own a small, inexpensive house, or live in a motel your overall tax burden can be shown to not be so high. Once you add property taxes (mine are over $6000 per year, by the way) the burden is excessive and high compared to many other states.