House Republicans introduce bill to have public employees pay their fair share of PERS

Oregon House Republicans Introduce Pers Reform Bill To Limit ‘Pick-Up’ Of Employee Contributions

Bill’s chief sponsor, Rep. Katie Eyre Brewer, notes that by having public employees pay more of their fair share of PERS, it will free up more state funding for schools

SALEM—House Republicans have introduced a PERS reform bill to limit the amount a public employer can agree to pay towards an employee’s individual account program.  HB 3218 reduces the PERS employer “pick-up” from six to three percent for future collective bargaining agreements, including the one currently being negotiated between the Governor and the public employee unions.

The concept is similar to a recommendation from former Gov. Ted Kulongoski’s Reset Cabinet, and is similar to a proposal that Gov. John Kitzhaber made to a major public employee union yesterday during collective bargaining negotiations.

“PERS costs continue to consume larger shares of state and local budgets,” said Rep. Katie Eyre Brewer (R-Hillsboro), the bill’s chief sponsor. “State and local governments can no longer afford to pick-up the entire six percent of employee contributions toward individual accounts.  By limiting the PERS pick-up, we can re-direct significant savings to education and other important services.”

The Governor’s Reset Report suggests that reducing the PERS pickup from three to six percent could save $132 million in the 2011-13 biennium for state and school employees combined.

“This PERS reform bill recognizes our valuable front-line employees and represents a reasonable compromise for future collective bargaining agreements,” said House Republican Leader Kevin Cameron (R-Salem). “HB 3218 is a first step toward bringing public employee pensions and benefits in line with the private sector.  It will save taxpayer dollars and help protect state and local governments from rising PERS costs.”

HB 3218 has been referred to the House Business and Labor Committee.  Capping the employer pick-up at three percent is part of the House Republicans’ 2011 Jobs and Reform Agenda.

 

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  • Underpaid

    I resent the assault on my rights as a teacher. First, I am underpaid. I only make $67,000 per year for working over 180 days. Actually I only work with the kids for about 167 if you count actual full days in the classroom. So for working less than half the year and for under 5 hours of actual contact time each day, I only get a lousy 67K. I work for so little because of the PERS pickup. If I did not get that I would demand more money to make up for the difference.
    Plus, I do get full medical, dental, vision, and prescription, but that is only worth about 10-15 grand a year, so that is not that good.
    And only two weeks at Christmas, and just one at spring? What good is that?
    And every other major holiday off?
    Not really that great. You get tired of not working and getting paid.
    So, please cancel this bill.
    I need my PERS and I am not willing to pick up any of it without getting a raise.

    • Disillusioned Smith7

      I would love to get a “lousy 67K”.I would also like “full medical, dental, vision, and prescription”. Would not complain at all about “not working and getting paid”

      Thank you Underpaid for informing us private sector workers about your public sector compensation. As Rep. Katie Eyre Brewer states “HB 3218 is a first step”. It is not enough.

      We both pay taxes. You get PERS. I get nothing. Welcome to the Oregon 2011 economy… deal with it… it’s going to get much worse…

    • Disillusioned Smith7

      I would love to get a “lousy 67K”.I would also like “full medical, dental, vision, and prescription”. Would not complain at all about “not working and getting paid”

      Thank you Underpaid for informing us private sector workers about your public sector compensation. As Rep. Katie Eyre Brewer states “HB 3218 is a first step”. It is not enough.

      We both pay taxes. You get PERS. I get nothing. Welcome to the Oregon 2011 economy… deal with it… it’s going to get much worse…

    • Disillusioned Smith7

      Underpaid, I’m sorry that I forgot to mention, that you and your fellow front line workers are not the problem. The Union(s) that represent you are the problem.

    • richard

      Underpaid is obviously not a teacher, rather someone scamming to stir the pot against teachers. The stated pay is too high and days/hours worked too low. I for one do not want low budget teachers in the schools. You get what you pay for. Someone that spends 30+ years on their feet in a class of over 30 kids (our kids) deserves something more than a kick in the pants.

      • Underpaid

        How stupid can you be? The salaries are public knowledge and that IS what I make. Also, the school calendars are public knowledge and those are the days I actually work with the students. I am not counting “prep” days and conference days and planning days. Look at any school calendar, if you can read, and you will see that I am spot on.
        I am not sure why you don’t want to know the truth. I have risked a lot by posting these facts and some moron comes along who can’t read and says I am not telling the truth.
        Check YOUR facts before you post some nonsense.

        • wrath of khan

          You’re not a teacher. If you are, post your contract with the salary schedule – they all have them online. How many years have you worked? what’s your education level? Are you part time? I don’t know of a single teacher that spends only 5 hours a day at the job. They spend from 7-3 at the school, if not more, and then grade papers and tests, prep for lesson plans and all that while at home. If you ARE a teacher and spend less than 5 hours working a day yet are full time, than you’re skimping on your requirements. but oh, that’s right, you’re not a teacher

          • Underpaid

            Listen up moron.
            I have an MA and have taught for 21 years. That salary is what I make. You can find salary schedules for all the districts in this state – well, I should say most normal people could.
            My 5 hours were clearly stated as CONTACT hours with students. The rest of the 8 hours I work is free time.
            I am not skimping on anything – I work the hours they tell me to work.
            That is all.
            Nothing more, nothing less. And guess what? I make the exact same amount as any other teacher in my district with an MA and 21 years on the salary schedule. No matter if I do a good job or just have the kids silent read during class, which, by the way, I do often.

          • TxPharm

            Yup you’re a fake. admitting to letting school kids vegetate in class while you get paid to teach them- you’re busted.

    • ardbeg

      Oh for gods sake quit your pissin and moaning, when I started teaching in the late 80’s and was making 14.5 k with no insurance and my contemporaries in the “private sector’ were pulling down 2.5 to 3 times my salary, did you here me crying? No! It’s life, GET OVER IT!

    • YourEmployer

      Poor underpaid. Based on a private sector job (2080 hours per year, or 260 working days) your salary is the equivalent of $97,000 per year. Most PhD’s in the private sector don’t make that kind of money, and they pay for a large percentage of their retirement and benefits. Your full benefit package costs far more than you whine about…, most medical per year is about $12,000+ and your retirement costs me Joe tax payer over a million dollars over the life of your career. I guess you want us all to bow when you walk by as well since our government/public employees have become an elite class of citizen. I’m also tired of public money being laundered to the unions and then back to the democratic party, and I have no say in where it goes. Big union money, big politics, big corruption, all walking hand in hand…

      • Underpaid

        But remember, I have to work really, really hard during the 5 hours each day I am actually with any students. You should try it. It is really, really hard.

    • Bill

      this is so much crap! you flip hamburgers.

      • Joe

        Well said by a public employee!

    • Snickety

      “Underpaid” is an example of the sophomoric humor and lack of critical thinking skills that is often posted on this site (often as the first response leading me to believe these fake posts are done by oregoncatalyst staff or regular contributors). And, the responses, which totally miss the fact that the post is fake, are good examples of the level of intelligence of the posters here as well.

      • Youremployer

        LOL! I KNEW it was sophomoric humor..but then i KNOW a few folks that FEEL this same way..that @ $67,000 that they are UNDERPAID and OVERWORKED, thus my rhetorical criticism/reply…I live [for now and unfortunately] in this LAME AlreadyGONE State…it is a Nanny state magnet that attracts every sick person from here to Tx to get on the FREE Ted Kulongoski [tax and goudge me-now Kitzhoffer FREEBIE TRAIN] who arrive to live in go’vt housing and smoke their medicinal marijuana all day long..while the taxpayers [who haven’t left YET] pay their way!!! So settle down your SNICKETY self ……because we posters who are WORKING in ORegon are going to ENJOY watching this House of Cards come Falling down soon….so go out and enjoy the sunshine…while it lasts on this 29* day 🙂 We are headed out to Ski:)

        • Underpaid

          It is not humor you buffoons. I am real and so is my salary and so will be my PERS when I retire.
          Sorry you don’t want to believe the truth. It is out there you know.

    • TxPharm

      What a WHINER. My daughter just graduated from LAW SCHOOL in Oregon and she would LOVE to get $67k plus benefits for working ALL year, instead of your easy street HALF the year.
      May the world’s violins play for a full minute just for you, Underpaid.

  • Steve Plunk

    Getting rid of the guaranteed 8% return should be next. In past years PERS members have reaped returns of nearly 20% a year in good years but require the taxpayers to pick up the tab when returns fall below 8% in bad years. That’s insanity. They should be subject to the same risks as the rest of us.

    • Disillusioned Smith7

      or… instead of them “subject to the same risks as the rest of us.” Allow us to partake in the PERS system. The Private Employee Retirement System… now there’s a novel idea!!!

    • Bob Clark

      Steve, your tops. But it is my understanding, the guaranteed 8% return is for legacy Tier I workers. This return arrangement effectively ended for new PERS contributions in the year 2003 with Kookngoski’s PERS reform. So, as the early baby boomer teachers and state workers retire this legacy burden should fade. Am I misguided?

      • Steve Plunk

        I believe you’re right on that. While they will eventually fade the 8% guarantee should end immediately. Is it my imagination or did the boomers ruin everything?

      • Jack Roberts

        Actually, the guaranteed return and other Tier One benefits ended with the PERS reform bill passed in 1995, effective for employees hired January 1, 1996 and later. Kulongoski’s reform passed in 2003 created a new Tier 3 benefit package which is even more like a traditional private sector retirement plan.

        As for the Tier One employees, the Oregon Supreme Court essentially ruled their benefits can’t be changed legislatively when they threw out Bill Sizemore’s Ballot Measure 8, passed by voters in 1994.

        • Steve Plunk

          If not through legislation then force it through the bargaining process. There has to be a way to get these benefits under control. We have already seen the detrimental effect it’s having on budgets across the state. A lack of will in the past has hurt us all dearly but it does not mean we can’t wise up and do what is necessary. Look at Wisconsin.

          • valley person

            You don’t “force” something through bargaining. By definition, bargaining is a give and take. Go ahead, look at Wisconsin. The governors inflexible position is backfiring on him.

          • Disillusioned Smith7

            How is it backfiring on him? As a private taxpayer, I have no representation at the bargaining table! Bargaining for who? The days of give and take are over. You give, I TAKE!!!

          • wrath of khan

            Do you plan on showing up at the bargaining table for every single government entity that you might live in/near? No. managers represent you at the table, so fear not, you have representation.

            and whether you want to acknowledge it or not, public workers pay for the retirement packages, health care and salaries or those in the private industry when they buy goods and services. duh! When i buy a starbucks coffee, I’m paying for the overall compensation package of those workers. When I buy a new car, I’m paying for the autoworkers compensaton and the dealers profit and salary. that’s how the world works. why aren’t I at the negotiating table for their benefits since I’m paying for them???

  • Bob Clark

    Shrewd to tie the PERS contribution reduction to assisting education spending. Afterall, OEA, SEIU and other public employee unions insist they need collective bargaining inorder to help the children. No doubt there’ll be some squirming and backroom public employee union spin to try to kill this effort for the children. Wanted union spin meisters.

  • conservatively speaking

    Say now, what about retirement COLA’s? RENOWN in government, NIL elsewhere.
    For Pete’s sake, what kind of $ustainable common $ense does that make?

    • Retiredteach

      The COLAs are strictly limited to 2% by law and I sure see my food and gas going up more than that.
      Please, stop these attacks. I have worked hard for what I have and I have helped society along the way, too.

      • conservatively speaking

        COLA’s for the government class whilst the private sector must scratch gravel to find crumbs tumbled off loaves of French’d bread conspicuously appearing upon the public servant tableau. Bon Appétit!

      • conservatively speaking

        COLA’s for the government class whilst the private sector must scratch gravel to find crumbs tumbled off loaves of French’d bread conspicuously appearing upon the public servant tableau. Bon Appétit!

  • conservatively speaking

    Say now, what about retirement COLA’s? RENOWN in government, NIL elsewhere.
    For Pete’s sake, what kind of $ustainable common $ense does that make?

  • Wendylingren

    Have the republicans actually talked to public employees? Or is this simply a way to try to get rid of unions. I am a public employee who has take a furlough day almost every month, plus, I have not had a raise in 3 years. If you people would pay attention, you would see that PERS is not what it used to be. I am struggling day to day just like everyone else – so maybe you need to talk to the real public employees before you start trying to pass these bills.

    • conservatively speaking

      You, lie? I’m a private sector retiree with no COLA, yet fortunate to receive 55% of ‘collective’ income factored over sum 36 years – contrast, highest income treatise do se dosed accoutrements suckled by the public sector supplicants receiving *unlimited sick leave dose$. *Feds say use it or lose it beyond 90 days.

      Social Security – another story, alas, raided time and time again for socialist
      intercourse outside bounds maintained by bonded/matured common sense.
      Gore figure!

      Wendylingren:
      Tell US a story,
      Tell US one NOT been said,
      Like, public employees receive Michael Moore,
      Than private sector counterparts in same stead,

      Indeed, tell US the whole story,
      NOT some synopsis you’ve read…
      Produced by UnionSteward schlepards,
      Outstanding in your field, little lamby fed.

      • wrath of khan

        well speaking, apparently you suck at negotiating for your compensation package. Or, don’t have the skills and education that would merit a better package. it’s the free market, suck it up

        • conservatively speaking

          Please detail where are COLA’s in private retirement trusts exist.
          For certain, COLA’s would bankrupt WSOPEPF, a notable regional private trust.

          Adding salt to wounds, oxymoron public COLA’s, e.g., Oregon PERS, EXACERBATE INFLATION.

          Moreover, costly ‘rules’ chicanery in public systems warrant virtual transparency not obfuscated by smoke and mirror specialists smirking in ‘organized’ wink tanks. Absolutely!

          Indeed, Susan Powter’s exclamation: “Stop the Insanity!” beckons more than ever.

  • Hey Baby!

    Let the overpaid trough feeders start paying the same as private citizens!

    That being said, Rep. Brewer is hooooottttt and tasty looking!

  • richard

    Lets be honest though and call it what it is, it is a PAY CUT for those workers that have the PERS pick-up. No where in the political rhetoric is anyone calling it the truth, pay cut. Maybe its needed, lets just be honest in the words. Lets also see the reporting and press releaases be clear and honest that all public employees do not have the PERS pickup and no contributiouns to benefits. Other than actual state employees, many other public employees (county, local, special districts) do pay their own 6% contribution, and also contribute to health insurance premiums. State employees are not the only public employees, but these reports make it sound like they all have the same benefits packages. Instead of cutting pay and benefits to the point we get low quality employees, cut the unessential services and programs. Yes it means layoffs, but recalibrate the government and its services, it is too big with too much abuse of handouts! Fund the priorities and when the money runs out, programs and services get cut.

  • Disillusioned Smith7

    Larry Huss, are you out there? I read your article “PERS for one, PERS for all, would that be a fair solution?” dated Wednesday, October 14, 2009.

    https://oregoncatalyst.com/2734-PERS-FOR-ONE-PERS-FOR-ALL-WOULD-THAT-BE-A-FAIR-SOLUTION.html

    What has happened with “PFO, PFA”? Is Dan Re still around?

  • Ozymandius

    This is all smoke and mirrors. Make workers pay their 6% contribution. Then workers will get a 6% raise in their contracts. Same money spent by the state. Same paychecks received by the workers. But now it is “fair” when before it was “unfair.”

    This is a real yawner. And a real drop in the fiscal budget even if the worker salaries aren’t raised to make up the difference. Want to save more money? Eliminate state benefits to illegal aliens and cap the payments made to existing PERS retirees under Tier 1. And make it illegal for anyone collecting PERS retirement benefits to also work for the state in any capacity – you get one or the other, not both at the same time!

    • Dhinkley

      As I understand it, the practice of some local governments and school districts picking up the employee PERS contribution was the result of contract negotiations where the Employees accepted it instead of an equivalent pay raise. Further many of these contracts contained a provision that should the Public Employer stop picking up the Employee’s contribution their pay would increase by 6%.

      It is important to remember that because of Federal Payroll taxes both the Employee and employer benefit financially from the Public Employer picking up the Employee’s PERS Contribution as the PERS payment is not subject to FICA. This saves both parties about 6 ½ %.

      As to changing Tier I PERS, all the possible changes were made in the 1995 reforms. Like it or not we are stuck with that system till the last Tier I PERS Employee dies.

    • Dipper

      Double dipping is the only way some of these people can afford to retire to AZ. Please don’t stop it.

  • Anonymous

    Public employees being made to pay their “fair share” is a red herring. Wages, as well as benefits such as retirement, are aspects of total compensation. There is no valid question other than “Are public employees over-paid in total compensation”? If they are, by all means take your evidence to the bargaining table.

    Agreements for the employer to pay for the employees share of retirement, a “PERS pick-up” were made in lieu of wages and to the tax advantage of the employer.

    In fact, all studies show that public employees are underpaid by 7% to 13% when required level of education is taken into account–except at the lowest level, “no education required.”

    Absent a showing that a particular group of public employees is over-paid in total compensation, reducing their total compensation is no different than a narrowly focused tax on them. These days it’s tax public employees, but preserve billionaires from taxation at any cost.

    • Steve Plunk

      The simple way to prove public employees are overpaid is to see how many applicants line up when a position becomes available. Even in good economic times public sector jobs were judged to be a gravy train that once on board the ride was easy.

      When they have a hard time filling positions is when you know they are underpaying. Until then it’s nothing but excuses for high pay and low productivity. The toughest part of being a public employee is dealing with other public employees in the bureaucracy.

      • valley person

        Yes…that is simple all right. Its also shortsighted. All applicants are not equal. I work in a well paid field that from time to time has very high unemployment. But if employers try to take advantage of that by dropping pay, they lose their talent base and end up with a low quality work force that ends up costing them business.

        Sure, you could probably find people to teach kids or police streets or fight fires for 1/2 of current pay. Maybe they would even be marginally qualified on paper. But are those the people you want teaching your kids and policing your streets abd fighting fires?

        • Steve Plunk

          We already have some of those people who shouldn’t be there. If they can’t meet the standards there are others who can waiting to fill the jobs.

          No one is talking 1/2 pay either. Why must the liberal arguments go to extremes rather than stay in the real world? Adjusting pay and benefits to a reasonable level is what’s being asked. The alternative is a nonstop fiscal crisis like we se around the country.

          • valley person

            OK, 3/4 pay then. Pick a number. If you are hiring people based on education and skill, not based on being a warm body, then you have to pay high enough to get good talent or your results will stink. Public employees are by and large well educated and skilled, much more so than the average in the private sector. So when you have an opening you are not competing with Wallmart, you are competing with private firms and corporations. Its true that teachers don’t have many private sector opportunities, but as well educated people they certainly have other career opportunities, and if you make the pay low enough and the conditions lousy enough the best and brightest will desert the profession and leave you with the dregs. Go down that path and you sacrifice education, and you will have a declining nation as a result.

            What is a “reasonable level” for public sector pay Steve? Numbers are not pulled out of thin air. Only about 1/2 of public sector workers are in unions, and the bulk of these are teachers, police, firefighters, and various trades. Engineers, lawyers, administrators and the rest are mostly not even in unions. Their pay is based on competition with other agencies and the private sector.

            Look….my field has taken a big hit in this recession. But no one at our company had to take a salary cut. No one. We tightened up and got through this through some natural attrition, some overhead cuts, and some cutback in hours work akin to public sector furloughs. The reason no salaries were cut is we know we need to hold onto talent, and if you start cutting pay that talent will jump ship the moment an opportunity presents itself. The public sector is no different in that regard. You chop away at it and you will lose good people.

            All this resentment against public sector workers is mean spirited and in the end counter productive. You won’t make society better by dumping on working people. The fiscal crisis is temporary. It does not require union busting..

          • wrath of khan

            you’ve made good points. It is amazing to me how moronic most of the people are on here. just like the private sector, you get what you pay for. you want retards engineering your roads and bridges, processing land use permits, managing the retirement accounts, watching prisoners, investigating crimes or running emergency management and services, go ahead and cut salaries and increase workloads. you know, free market and all. Public employees are highly skilled and educated. Sure administrative staff are more on par with the private sector, but that’s about it. The technical skills required of the public sector would blow most of you away. the fact is that the majority of the people who rant and rage about public employees here could never compete for the jobs of the public sector. You’re too simple and don’t have strong enough analytical and critical thinking skills. tough break.

            what a lot of people here also don’t get is that public workers have to put up with YOU, the psychos out there who think every service you get should be free, done perfectly, done in two seconds, and done on a mcdonalds salary. those who can’t separate the rolls of different departments of government, the different entities, and their purpose. those who go and yell at the planners over their property taxes, yell at the recorders clerks over gay marriage, yell at the county over city policies. you want bert and ernie repairing the broken water mains, installing the new sewers and teaching your kids.

            if you want to ‘save the budget’ then cut the unnecessary programs and stop paying for illegal immigrants. yes jobs will be lost, but that doesn’t punish those workers in services that are actually important or state mandated. it trims budgets in areas that actually matter.

            what is unfortunate is that much of the problem lies in middle and upper management. you get managers that know nothing of the jobs they are overseeing but are good at politicking. managers get paid large salaries but don’t help the organizations. it’s the line workers who make the state, cities and counties run – and managers that mess up things with their incompetence. and just how top heavy are most governments? THAT’s one of the biggest issues and the line workers support fixing it.

            those who profess the private sector doesn’t have any of the problems found in the public sector are smoking something. there are inefficiencies in the private sector too. there is mass incompetence. there are retarded managers too. those elements aren’t found in only one sector. corruption? just in government? don’t forget enron, tyco, bernie madoff and all the scam artists out there.

            And in case most of you forgot, PERS has completely changed as Jack Roberts notes. the ‘gravy train’ is over. new hires are on pension plans similar to private sector employees. For tier 1 employees, they ONLY get 8% per the oregon supreme court. in good years they don’t get the additional returns – just 8%. get caught up on the facts before you spew your venom.

        • Wayunderpaid

          If you are so well paid why don’t you share you money with those of us just barely getting by?
          I have a car that is three years old and small house (2800 sq. ft.) and I am not even able to go out to eat more than three times a week.
          I am a teacher who is underpaid.
          Please give me some of your money so I can save the children.

          • Youremployer

            Feeling your pain…Wayunderpaid..We too are having to drive vehicles that have to be returned yearly and be updated with the newest and GREATEST..and not able to drive a new Ferrari :(…My kids have to “Settle” for College educations [on Academic scholarships] vs working in the private sector at the moment…we are having to SAVE for that 6500 sft house inbetween traveling the globe….helping to save the children/3rd world countries…and teaching ENGLISH to the multitudes in this country so they will be able to thrive in our communitites….my housekeeper/gardener is speaking better English everyday 🙂
            Tough times…indeed!

        • Wayunderpaid

          If you are so well paid why don’t you share you money with those of us just barely getting by?
          I have a car that is three years old and small house (2800 sq. ft.) and I am not even able to go out to eat more than three times a week.
          I am a teacher who is underpaid.
          Please give me some of your money so I can save the children.

      • wrath of khan

        Oh really Steve? in a recession where mall jobs are getting applicants who have masters degrees? you think that a long line of applicants means that people are overpaid?? I don’t think you understand economics much. or reality.

      • Teachergirl

        Hey, not everyone can teach. I took classes out the wazoo to learn my craft. I have a Master’s Degree, too, which took me several summers to get. Armed with this education and no real world experience, I am the better teacher every time.
        So, even though many might line up, they are not even qualified.
        Luckily the state keeps them at bay with the convoluted licensing requirements through that silly board in Salem. They will never teach in Oregon who have not been properly educated to do so by our closed system. Never. Not once.

      • Teachergirl

        Hey, not everyone can teach. I took classes out the wazoo to learn my craft. I have a Master’s Degree, too, which took me several summers to get. Armed with this education and no real world experience, I am the better teacher every time.
        So, even though many might line up, they are not even qualified.
        Luckily the state keeps them at bay with the convoluted licensing requirements through that silly board in Salem. They will never teach in Oregon who have not been properly educated to do so by our closed system. Never. Not once.

      • Anonymous

        True enough, but people line for any job In hard times. As a former labor negotiator, I can say that turnover rates are always deemed to be relevant at the barqaining table, by both sides.

      • Disillusioned Smith7

        …when former gov. Ted K. hired all those state workers in 2009, that must have been a bear!

    • Steve Plunk

      The simple way to prove public employees are overpaid is to see how many applicants line up when a position becomes available. Even in good economic times public sector jobs were judged to be a gravy train that once on board the ride was easy.

      When they have a hard time filling positions is when you know they are underpaying. Until then it’s nothing but excuses for high pay and low productivity. The toughest part of being a public employee is dealing with other public employees in the bureaucracy.

  • Ozymandius

    whether or not state workers should pay into their retirement is one thing – but even if they do and it frees up more state money, why do we need to pay more into the schools? and isn’t that just playing financial shell games? we need to pay “more” to the schools because teachers and administrators say they need more money. so, we save money by taking it out of public salaries, then turn around and pump more money back into higher union wages and more state workers? really?

    here is an idea: CUT ALL THE DAMN SPENDING! schools need less money, not more. we need fewer teachers, not more. teachers need to be paid based on merit, not union protection. iron all that out first – then when the dust settles, we can figure out how to pay for pensions for those left teaching.

    • Underpaid

      But our faucets are leaking and our carpets are stained.
      Get real – we need the money.

  • Youremployer

    Dear underpaid…you could get ANOTHER JOB for the summer while you are sitting around doing “NOTHING” 🙂 then MAYBE you could make OVER $100K per year…poor thing….maybe you should pay to go BACK TO COLLEGE and brush up on your teaching skills…because most of our kids throughout the nation STILL cannot read/write or spell…and 1/3 of Oregonian students do not even graduate…if I performed with such results in my job…I’d be fired…and there is A LOT OF TEACHERS on the payroll SHOULD BE FIRED because all they DO care about is their PERS/benefits…NOT THE STUDENTS!!! There are MANY NEW FIRED UP teachers that would do a MUCH BETTER job….and not WHINE about their tiny salary of $67,000 for 9 months of work with a 3 month+ vacation…poor pitiful-you….time for you to stop your whining and “Cowboy up” and be THANKFUL YOU EVEN HAVE A JOB here in ALREADY-GONE Oregon..where the Tax base continues to shrink..and the NANNY STATE GROWS BIGGER than most in the Nation [that is how the dems/gov’t like it here]…where you see “SOCIALISM=EMBRACE IT” on the bumper stickers of cars in EUGENE. OR…such is the thinking of more than 1/2 of the folks here in Oregon…PITIFUL!!! PERS has broken OREGON’S back as well…and is UNSUSTAINABLE….IT WILL GET WORSE…I SUPPORT GOV WALKER…wish OR has such LEADERSHIP….and soon…maybe we will!! {so many high school graduates are having to join the Service because there are NO JOBS in Oregon period [for them}…this state in going….going….oh…it’s alreadygone! Your job may just be the NEXT TO GO as it is time to renegotiate contracts…and you can fund your 401 K YOURSELF and contribute to your HC PACKAGE…just like the rest of us in the REAL WORLD!

    • wrath of khan

      Hey, “your employer”, guess what? You’re not a teachers employer. You don’t contribute one dime to that persons salary. Your taxes go to the State Police. They are your employees. Those property taxes you pay for schools? Those go to the janitors and cafeteria staff – not the teachers. You don’t pay enough in taxes to be everyone’s boss. So get off your high horse.

      If you have retarded children who can’t read and write, blame yourself, not the teachers. Parents are the number 1 influence on whether or not a kid succeeds. You can’t throw 30+ kids at a teacher for 50 minutes and expect them to fully teach the concepts necessary for success…. Not when there are 3-5 students being disruptive or so flat out stupid that they suck up all the teachers time. Teachers not being able to discipline kids is one of the reasons for the lack of classroom success as well. We tie their hands behind their backs. parents are the reason kids fail in school – not the teachers, not the schools. rather, disinterested self serving selfish parents like you. Pull a book out and read to your kid instead of sitting him in front of the tv. there’s a concept! he might actually LEARN to read! Maybe even help johnny with his homework!

      You have no idea who the good teachers or bad teachers are. Do you go in and watch all the teachers? Do you evaluate them? Do you even know HOW to evaluate performance? No. You only know how to cry and whine and be mad that someone has better benefits than you. If your job sucks so bad, quit and become a teacher! Oh that’s right, it’s a freaking HARD job that you can’t handle. Until you and the other whiners are willing to step up, shut up. If you believe Oregon is ‘gone’, just leave. We don’t need you anyway.

      U mad?

      • Underpaid

        Most teachers, like myself, are good people with good intentions. We just can’t deliver on them due to the bad parenting.

      • YOUREMPLOYER

        Stop SPEWING your name calling khan..YOU HAVE NO CLUE !! I spent 6 weeks in the classroom with my child…EVERY CLASS = EVERY DAY…I evalutated not ONLY the teachers but the classroom surroundings and the WILD children who have NO PARENTING at home…no love, no discipline, not RESPECT…TONS OF BULLIES…YEP saw it all…broke up fights the teachers wouldn’t do anything about…IT WAS A GREAT EYE OPENER …YOU SHOULD TRY IT YOURSELF INSTEAD OF CALLING ME NAMES..and YOU DON’T HAVE A CLUE WHO I AM AND WHAT I DO DAILY!! The school said I was the first parent EVER to sit 6 weeks in the classroom…and PROVED I CARED about not only MY child…but for all of the students who attended the school..BET NO OTHER parent has done THAT lately…so BEEN THERE…DONE THAT!! Sad that you would use such HARSH, JUDGEMENTAL NAMES for children who cannot read/write or even graduate high School… you have no idea the shoes they walk in daily…. SHAME !!
        MY CHILDREN are VERY SUCCESSFUL..GO TO SCHOOL ON ACADEMIC SCHOLARSHIPS…and are ASSETS TO THE COMMUNITY….you state “You can’t throw 30+ kids at a teacher for 50 minutes and expect them to fully teach the concepts necessary for success”…OH YES YOU CAN….and mine learned in spite of all the good/bad teachers and the disruptions…etc..and yes I EVALUATED MY CHILD’s teachers…as well as others… talked with them, the pricipal and even the Superintendent ….AND you are right about ONE thing…[Teachers not being able to discipline kids is one of the reasons for the lack of classroom success as well. We tie their hands behind their backs] DISCIPLINE NEEDS TO BE RESTORED along with MANY other VALUES in the classroom as well……
        My JOB is AWESOME….and that fact that I raised my children to have Integrity, RESPECT, being a RESPONSIBLE Citizen and making GOOD choices has paid off ..they are GOOD AMERICANS who love their country..they know the Pledge of Allegiance and the Words to the Star Spangled Banner…DO YOU??
        The GREATEST WORK I HAVE EVER DONE…was within the four walls of my own home. RAISING GOOD, educated, charitable, BALANCED CHILDREN!!
        FYI-I employ many people here in Oregon and will continue to help this ALREADY GONE state in the best way I know how to do…BELIEVE ME…I AM NEEDED HERE..and as long as I am part of the SOLUTION..[employing folks here] I will stay and do MY PART-DAILY..making a difference when and where I can…me mad?? ..YEP…and just fed up with the way our president
        Kowtow’s and apologizes for the USA..and that so MANY want EVERYTHING FOR NOTHING…and has NO skin in the game…YES I AM CONTRIBUTING to teachers salaries WITH MY HARD EARNED TAX dollars [ alll of us contribute..those that are WORKING and have stayed..although the TAX BASE IS SHRINKING…look around you…businesses closing ..people moving out of the area..even Nike entertained the idea of moving to Washinton when meansures 67 and 68 passed [MORE TAX MONEY FOR PLUGGING THE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS LOST BY PERS..] NOW EUGENE wants to pass a NEW INCOME TAX for schools…time to say NO…enough is enough..
        Next comment try and do YOUR homework …BEFORE trying to sell me your “khan” of worms…

        • Youremployer

          If every school principal gave this speech at the beginning of the next school year, America would be a better place.
          To the students and faculty of our high school:
          I am your new principal, and honored to be so. There is no greater calling than to teach young people. I would like to apprise you of some important changes coming to our school. I am making these changes because I am convinced that most of the ideas that have dominated public education in America have worked against you, against your teachers and against our country.
          First, this school will no longer honor race or ethnicity. I could not care less if your racial makeup is black, brown, red, yellow or white. I could not care less if your origins are African, Latin American, Asian or European, or if your ancestors arrived here on the Mayflower or on slave ships.
          The only identity I care about, the only one this school will recognize, is your individual identity — your character, your scholarship, your humanity. And the only national identity this school will care about is American. This is an American public school, and American public schools were created to make better Americans.
          If you wish to affirm an ethnic, racial or religious identity through school, you will have to go elsewhere. We will end all ethnicity-, race- and non-American nationality-based celebrations. They undermine the motto of America, one of its three central values — e pluribus unum, “from many, one.” And this school will be guided by America’s values.
          This includes all after-school clubs. I will not authorize clubs that divide students based on any identities. This includes race, language, religion, sexual orientation or whatever else may become in vogue in a society divided by political correctness.
          Your clubs will be based on interests and passions, not blood, ethnic, racial or other physically defined ties. Those clubs just cultivate narcissism — an unhealthy preoccupation with the self — while the purpose of education is to get you to think beyond yourself. So we will have clubs that transport you to the wonders and glories of art, music, astronomy, languages you do not already speak, carpentry and more. If the only extracurricular activities you can imagine being interesting in are those based on ethnic, racial or sexual identity, that means that little outside of yourself really interests you.
          Second, I am uninterested in whether English is your native language. My only interest in terms of language is that you leave this school speaking and writing English as fluently as possible. The English language has united America’s citizens for over 200 years, and it will unite us at this school. It is one of the indispensable reasons this country of immigrants has always come to be one country. And if you leave this school without excellent English language skills, I would be remiss in my duty to ensure that you will be prepared to successfully compete in the American job market. We will learn other languages here — it is deplorable that most Americans only speak English — but if you want classes taught in your native language rather than in English, this is not your school.
          Third, because I regard learning as a sacred endeavor, everything in this school will reflect learning’s elevated status. This means, among other things, that you and your teachers will dress accordingly. Many people in our society dress more formally for Hollywood events than for church or school. These people have their priorities backward. Therefore, there will be a formal dress code at this school.
          Fourth, no obscene language will be tolerated anywhere on this school’s property — whether in class, in the hallways or at athletic events. If you can’t speak without using the f-word, you can’t speak. By obscene language I mean the words banned by the Federal Communications Commission, plus epithets such as “Nigger,” even when used by one black student to address another black, or “bitch,” even when addressed by a girl to a girlfriend. It is my intent that by the time you leave this school, you will be among the few your age to instinctively distinguish between the elevated and the degraded, the holy and the obscene.
          Fifth, we will end all self-esteem programs. In this school, self-esteem will be attained in only one way — the way people attained it until decided otherwise a generation ago — by earning it. One immediate consequence is that there will be one valedictorian, not eight.
          Sixth, and last, I am reorienting the school toward academics and away from politics and propaganda. No more time will devoted to scaring you about smoking and caffeine, or terrifying you about sexual harassment or global warming. No more semesters will be devoted to condom wearing and teaching you to regard sexual relations as only or primarily a health issue. There will be no more attempts to convince you that you are a victim because you are not white, or not male, or not heterosexual or not Christian. We will have failed if any one of you graduates this school and does not consider him or herself inordinately lucky — to be alive and to be an American.
          Now, please stand and join me in the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag of our country. As many of you do not know the words, your teachers will hand them out to you.

          FABULOUS! Enough said….

  • Rupert in Springfield

    One has to love the foolish contention that public employees make the same or less as their private sector counterparts. Were this true then there would not be the ugly demonstrations we do in places like WI. It simply defies credulity to believe that people get as ugly as PE unions do to hang on to a job with substandard or unremarkable compensation.

    • valley person

      Don’t let facts get in the way Rupert. Use your impressions of what you see in the media instead. Have they ever failed you?

      • conservatively speaking

        Not forgotten: The expletive verbiage (recorded by the media) of striking Sandy school teacher welcoming ‘scab’ educators through their picket line before students’ big ears, Dembro!

  • Ethel

    I am a state employee and feel that it is more than fair for employees and lawmakers to pay into their own retirement. Just wish I could pick where it goes instead of the two options the state gives.

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