Oregon GOP Platform Conundrum

by Bill Post

Last weekend, as most know, the Oregon GOP had its convention to address the party platform. I was alarmed by the headline from the Oregonian on Monday as it insinuated that there were major changes made to the platform attempting to equate civil unions to marriage.

As an Evangelical Christian first and a Republican second, I was of course concerned that someone or some group within the party was seeking to water down what I have always felt was a very well written platform.

On my show Monday I addressed this issue making very clear that I was opposed to any changes in the language. I was challenged by one of the young men quoted in the above Oregonian article. Xander Almeida called the show to let me know that: “We felt like we preserved the core of the message… we believe that marriage is between one man and one woman – we’re not trying to change that language.”

Ok, so that sounds pretty good and I was happy that no major changes were made.

Unfortunately starting Tuesday, then again on Wednesday, I started receiving calls that were contrary to that statement, delegates telling me that there were some in the party who wanted to take out ALL references defining marriage as well as remove the Pro-Life stance of the party. I started getting the feeling that I wasn’t getting the whole picture somehow.

Then I saw this on Blue Oregon this morning. The same Xander Almeida says something completely different there then he said to me on the radio:

Hi. This is Xander, the one they quoted in the paper. I understand how easy it can be to fall into cynicism in regards to the GOPs sordid history when it comes to equality involving the queer community. However, this wasn’t simply a marketing tactic. Every little step in the right direction. Had we young Republicans tried to get language within the platform that said we 100% support gay marriage, do you really think it would have passed? No. And we did try. And it didn’t pass. This was a compromise, to be sure. But keep in mind how bad the platform USED to be. It clearly stated that civil unions ought to have no legal standing or rights, it explicitly named gay marriage as terrible, and that gays were unfit for adoption and parenting. Now that was pretty bad. And now it simply affirms what the Oregon Constitution states and that’s it. I would also like to mention that the Oregon Democratic Platform also apparently makes no mention in favor or against gay marriage OR civil unions. In that regard, the two platforms say (or don’t say) essentially the same thing. All that to say this… there is a change and growing movement toward acceptance and equality within the party. This proved that. We didn’t do this for marketing. We did this because it was the right thing to move toward.

So which is the REAL story?

There was also a move to add the phrase “this is a Christian Nation” to the preamble but they were not allowed the same floor vote that the group seeking to remove the civil unions wording was allowed. Why? There are even those in the counties in the Portland area who find that this move was just fine and that in order to be more “inclusive” and even more heinous, in order to gain more voters, watering down our message is a “good thing”.

I was asked on Twitter: Question: Do you believe that Republicans should all be socially and fiscally conservative? Every one of them? My answer is: YES in every way!

I was also told on Twitter: Our party platform does not need to list every social ill. It’s meant to help elect republicans. Being anti-gay helps no one. I ask: please define “anti-gay”?.

I was also told on Twitter: I’m a social conservative. We can preserve the family without being anti-gay. I supported the change. My answer is: I have asked repeatedly to no avail, what is “anti-gay”? Would it be what drove Bob Turner to win in NY CD 09? Is he “anti-gay”? If he is, then I guess I am “anti-gay” (remember I still don’t know what “anti-gay” is) because if you can win in NEW YORK with that, then we can win in Oregon! The irony is that many of the same folks who think that Rob Cornilles is not “conservative enough” are the same people who not only accepted the platform changes but in fact encouraged it and are thrilled with the changes. What? Can you say “schizophrenic”? Rob is not only Pro-Life but Pro-Marriage just as Bob Turner is in New York. So Rob is not the “new GOP of Oregon”? I pray to God he isn’t!

Could it be that we in the GOP are willing to compromise our Christian values just to gain a small percentage of votes in Portland? Or could there be a concerted effort to take over the party by an element that is not interested in the GOP for anything other than weakening it? I am going to take heat as I already have, but that is what Christ promised would happen to his followers. I will gladly take the slings and arrows for Christ. He is the one who gave me life and liberty, not man. Everything I do and everything I have is because of Him

Late in the day yesterday I received this email from a listener:

Hi Bill,

God has given you a public platform and today you glorified Him by
standing for righteousness!! Thank you! You speak for many people as well.

Always proud of you!
Lydia

Now that is what helps me get through each day knowing that the vast majority of the GOP is made up of good people like Lydia, who knows from whom we derive everything!

Let me bring this all home with this: we saw an historic victory in New York this week, a district that had a Democrat in office since 1923! On the DIRECT platform of Pro-Life and Pro-Marriage (not homosexual marriage) Bob Turner won. What will we learn from that?

Catch The Bill Post Radio Show every day at noon on AM 1430 KYKN or at 10pm on AM 1360 KUIK and replays at www.bpshow.com

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  • Is being Christian a pre-requisite for being a Republican? I am not Christian and I have been a lifelong Republican. The reality is that each year more Republicans become more tolerant on this issue. You have a right to your opinion, but so to the many in the party to that do not support your anti-gay positions. The future is ours.

    • 3H

      Not if he has is way Rob.  If you’re gay, or Jewish, or, God forbid, a Gay Jew Conservative, the Republican Party of Bill Post has no room for you.  Your donations are welcome as long as they are anonymous.

      • The Bill Post Radio Show

        I prefer names 3h but oh well.  I don’t think I said I disliked or didn’t want Jews nor Gays in the party.  You should check that again.  In fact, it was Jews who gave the victory to Turner in New York!  Thank you for your many responses, of which I don’t have time to address each one individually.  I prefer to use my real name and I usually don’t respond to those who choose to sling darts anonymously, so that will be all I have to say. 

        • 3H

          If you explicitly turn the United States into a “Christian Nation” you are making a statement.  You are saying that this is your country and all other beliefs (or non-beliefs) are guests – welcome guests perhaps, but guests none the less. 

          If you push an evangelical platform for the Republican Party, one that calls for just such a designation, how welcome do you think Jews and gays would feel?  Have you even taken that into consideration?

          Do you think Jews in NY would have voted for Turner if he advocated the United States being designated a “Christian Nation”?

          I prefer it when people don’t use their real names.  I find it distracting.  But that’s my problem and I don’t feel the need to have people conform to my view of the world.   Something you might consider in the future, by the way.  But you come across as a “my way or the highway” kind of guy.

      • Justaskkarend

        May God bless the Jewish people and I bet that Bill Post agrees with me on this.

        • 3H

          Just don’t think that they belong as much as Christians?  

          I’m reasonably certain he would bless Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Wiccans, Agnostics and Atheists (to name a few).  But,when he wants to declare that the United States is a “Christian Nation”, he is being exclusionary.What is the purpose of declaring this a “Christian Nation.”  What does that mean?  Why make that distinction?  Especially in a country founded, in part, on the principal of religious freedom and toleration?

  • 3H

    So, how do the Libertarians on here feel…  shoud this be a “Christian Nation”?   Where the the Cascade Policy Institute fall on social issues?  I get the feeling that Libertarians downplay social issues because they don’t want to deal with a potential rift with social conservatives.  Which probably explains why you don’t find social issues like abortion or same-sex marriage on their site.

    What does a “free market” response to same-sex marriage look like to a Libertarian?

    Steve?

    • 3H, I wrote about this for the Oregonian’s MyOregon blog; I would be interested in hearing your comments on my modest proposal.

      “Or could there be a concerted effort to take over the party by an element that is not interested in the GOP for anything other than weakening it?” asks Mr. Post. Two words: Tea Party. 

      It is also important to understand how NY’s 9th is different from CA’s 8th and OR’s 1st. Here is the link:

      http://blog.oregonlive.com/myoregon/2011/09/how_the_tea_party_can_win_nanc.html

      • valley person

        I read your post Eric. Aren’t you assuming the “tea party” is more libertarian than it is  simply “conservative”? All the demographic research I’ve seen on this says the tea party is as anti gay as the rest of conservative Republicans, so how could they run on the platform you suggest?

        • There has not been a lot of good journalism on the Tea Party. In its absence it is understandable how that perception of yours is shared by traditional Republican commentators on fox news and conservative talk radio. 

          The best work has been done by a New York Times journalist named Kate Zernike. Last fall she published the sum of her work in a great book titled Boiling Mad. She was writing about people and events in early 2009. Few paid serious interest to the tea party until April 15th 2010 when traditional republicans jumped on the bandwagon. 

          There have been plenty of Republicans marching for a cause since you were an undergraduate in the 1970s, but it was always a cultural cause. Republicans marched against abortion, gays, and for war, but not for austerity. The tea party represents the first time mass, grass-roots demonstrations have been held for a purely free-market cause. 

          The way in which the tea party has been culturally liberal has been to ignore cultural issues entirely. Mitch Daniels coined a phrase that has become the Tea Party’s mantra “let’s declare an armistice in the culture wars.” That does not sit well with many traditional Republicans because the status-quo does not favor the religious right. This was Mick Huckabee’s stated reason for staying out of the 2012 race, he said he does not belong in a tea party dominated Republican Party. It is also evident in the anti-Tea Party message of Michael Gerson’s columns for the Washington Post. 

          It is important to remember that the same thing has been going on within the Democratic party, except progressive democrats have proven too small of a faction with too little ambition. Progressives have not showed the courage that the Tea Party has, in denying their party moderate candidates, sacrificing victory for ideological purity. In 2008, any Democrat with a pulse could have beaten John McCain, including Denis Kucinich. Democrats went with a mushy guy with no balls! Now the 2006 congressional freshmen are up for reelection, folks like Bob Casey of Pennsylvania. Democrats would have seen more legislative success over the past six years if they shot higher and elected real progressives. Now they are about to lose that majority with little to show for it. 

          Make no mistake, the Tea Party is a libertarian insurgency within the Republican Party. We are in the process of a major political realignment. The Tea Party will tear the old GOP apart, but will build a new one that is appealing to a new coalition of people. Michel Bachman does not represent that future; Ron Paul does.  

      • Justaskkarend

        “Or could there be a concerted effort to take over the party by an element that is not interested in the GOP for anything other than weakening it?” asks Mr. Post. Two words: Tea Party. ”
        I can answer that question in one word, Eric: “Communists”

      • Justaskkarend

        “Or could there be a concerted effort to take over the party by an element that is not interested in the GOP for anything other than weakening it?” asks Mr. Post. Two words: Tea Party. ”
        I can answer that question in one word, Eric: “Communists”

        • Karen,

          Joe McCarthy had his list of US military officers who were secretly Communists. Do you have a list of delegates to this Oregon Republican Party convention that are closet Communists too?

    • The Libertean

      I WAS ONE OF THE DELGATES…

      Should this be a “Christian Nation”?  My answer is… Hell No!  While I have voted Libertarian a couple times in the past, I mostly held my nose and voted Republican. Where is it written that The Republican Party should be The Christian Party?  And if you think it should be, why not be honest and call it the The Christian Party?  Because you wouldn’t win elections, that’s why.  The majority of Americans don’t want a Christian Theocracy, and our Founding Fathers did all they could to make sure it didn’t happen.  Bill Post wrote “I started receiving calls that were contrary to that statement, delegates telling me that there were some in the party who wanted to take out ALL references defining marriage as well as remove the Pro-Life stance of the party.”

      There absolutely are Republicans who were at the Platform Convention who would have liked to remove ALL references defining marriage.  I’m one of them!  What gives you the right to tell someone else if they are a “family?”  I was in the Family Caucus, but I really don’t recall anyone making any effort to change the Pro-Life stance of the party.  Frankly, among the delegates uncomfortable living in a theocracy, or a country where many citizens would place God’s law over the law of man, there was absolutely no abortion discussion at all.  

      And I know many don’t want to hear this, but there were no concerted efforts or conspiracies to prevent anyone from making any motions to amend the platform.  There were time constraints for each plank, when they came before the entire delegation, and we stayed on schedule.  

      We have an amazing opportunity in 2012 to turn our nation around, and move it back towards our Constitution, liberty and free markets.  If the Religious Right continues to fight to control society based on their religious beliefs, our nation will continue to swing back and forth between the collectivist, nanny statists on the far left, and the intolerant religious folks on the far right.  I wonder… do they see themselves in each other?  Why can’t they just live their own lives and let the rest of us be free?

      • Justaskkarend

        I was one of the delegates, too.

        In my opinion, when a person refers to the United States as a “Christian nation” what they are referring to is the principles underlying the founding ideas/documents that guide our country. The principle that all people are created equally – is a Christian principle; the principle that the government is established by the people, and not a monarchy, is a Christian principle, etc; all showing that there is a power greater than that of government’s that operates & expresses through individuals, not an entity.

        “Christian nation” as I understand it does not mean that all people must be Christian – and I would say, without reserve, that it would be a mistake to interpret it that way.

        • 3H

          But what about all the non-biblical principles underlying our country?  The idea of Democracy is not a biblical for instance.   It is classical (and pagan) Greek.   In fact, I think it could be argued that Classical Greek and Roman sources were just as important (if not more so) than the Bible.   Calling us a “Christian Nation” based upon a blinkered reading of our history and the sources of our political organization and thought is a huge mistake.

  • 3H

    Well, Bill, I understand your pain.  I don’t know what “Pro marriage” means except it seems to mean “I get to impose my Evangelical beliefs on you because it’s just not good enough that I get to live my own life by my beliefs, I need to you to live by them too.”

    Whatever you do, please do not use the word freedom or try and lecture people about having freedom because you have no real idea of what it means. 

  • 3H

    One other question – do you believe that we should explicitly be a “Christian Nation” and what does that mean?   Are we to be a Evangelical Christian Nation or a Unitarian Christian Nation?  Those are going to look very different don’t you think?

  • Great article Bill! We are a nation founded on Christian principles and I found myself agreeing with what you wrote here. I was at the convention and voted to shorten the plank. Now we are being attacked and this small group is going with the inclusion by ommision arguement. We GOPers are not anti-gay and as far as I know never have been. We are pro traditional family. Studies prove time and time again that children do best with one mom and one dad.
    What is interesting is this progressive group is not being singled out by the GOPers for what they are. Progressives.
    Keep up the good work! We “East Siders” appreciate what you do.

    • The Libertean

      They are… domdomdom…Progressives!  Jess, what exactly does that mean in this context?  If that means that we don’t think your religion should rule my life or the life of other Americans, than call me a Progressive if you’d like.  When I think of the nations that are governed or ruled by individuals or groups, who are guided by their religious beliefs, it brings to mind The Crusades, burning witches at the stake, and The Taliban.  

      If Progressives want to progress beyond that type of government, then you can call me a Progressive, if you wish – if it makes you feel better to label people.  If you use the word to mean preferring an open and flexible interpretation of the Constitution, then I suggest you find another label.  I’d be more than happy if you called me libertarian or a Tea Partier.  If you’d like a single label, how about a Libertean Republican. 

    • The Bill Post Radio Show

      Thanks Jess!  I appreciate your clarity.

  • Great article Bill! We are a nation founded on Christian principles and I found myself agreeing with what you wrote here. I was at the convention and voted to shorten the plank. Now we are being attacked and this small group is going with the inclusion by ommision arguement. We GOPers are not anti-gay and as far as I know never have been. We are pro traditional family. Studies prove time and time again that children do best with one mom and one dad.
    What is interesting is this progressive group is not being singled out by the GOPers for what they are. Progressives.
    Keep up the good work! We “East Siders” appreciate what you do.

    • 3H

      You mean a traditional family like Abraham’s?   

      • valley person

        Speaking of which, since all 3 main western religions revere Abraham, isn’t that a case of Prophet sharing?

  • My personal beliefs is that if we really want to get back to the core of the country’s foundation within marriage tradition, we’d get marriage out of government all together and take it back to the religious institutions, which is where it was traditionally.  Which is why I supported the Pastor in Bend who proposed to take out all of sections 6.2 and 6.3  Not just amend, but to get them out all together.  I especially supported that as I didn’t believe 6.3 is compatible with 6.1 of the platform, which states minimum government intervention within a family.

    I would suggest that if I said group _____ was unfit to be parents by default and unworthy of legal rights or equal standing, and if that blank was anything but gays and lesbians, you would probably consider that to be antagonistic toward that group of people, and probably anti- that group of people.  

    In my personal life, I am a Christian first.  In my political life, I am an American first and foremost.  And because this is a Constitutional Republic and not a theocracy, it is my belief that ideas I believe to be theocratic ought not be in any platform short of a group which acknowledges a belief that Christian theocratic law ought to be the law of the land.  

    Which is it? I don’t believe I said anything differently to you.  As a Christian, I don’t see how I can see anything differently than one man and one woman being marriage.  As an American, I don’t see how I can oppose civil unions.  And as a student of history, I don’t see how I can support anything short of getting government out of it all together.

    I would also suggest that if you go back through the national platform of the GOP, we’ve never defined what is marriage until after 1988.  So this opposition is quite new.  It is not traditional.

    • The Bill Post Radio Show

      Excellent stuff Xander and I greatly look forward to meeting you!  I want to see that act you talked about!  Take care.

  • Define anti-gay: Anyone who argues that gay people have lesser rights than other people are anti-gay when it comes to the law. As for personal prejudices no one really cares. But when people want the law to reflect those personal prejudices, whether they are religiously motivate or not doesn’t matter, then there will be a fight.

    • The Bill Post Radio Show

      “Lesser rights”?  What right does ANY American not have that someone else has?  Each of us makes a choice and the consequences of that choice may be unwanted but there are no “rights” taken away by anyone.  Thank you for the thoughtful response though!

  • Bob Clark

    I believe myself fiscally conservative in governance philosphy.  I root for the GOP because generally they seem better stewarts of the public’s money (Bush II < Clinton, aside) than the Dems, and also GOP tends to be much more supportive of free market principles. 

    I don't consider myself anti-gay but I think the term marriage should be retained for the formal union of one man and one woman for at least the next generation or so.  Other unions should create their own celebratory term in the interim.  After all, isn't history really our religion.  We know not the kernal of our existence; and even if a superior being were to tell us of this kernal, for one reason or another we probably would still not know our kernal.  Life is faith, pure and simple.
     
    This being said, our American history is heavy in Christianity but also includes a healthy respect for other religious beliefs.  At this point in our history, most of us have also become understanding of the gay lifestyle;  But most of us also yearn for carrying on our traditions like marriage between man and woman, and gay unions have not had enough history to be current tradition.  Therefore, I wish we could have a different celebratory term for formal gay coupling just to tide us over a generation or two in time. 

    Thanks to all those organizations sending me flyers about the greatness of gay marriage.  It makes good material for fueling my wood stove.  

    • valley person

      Bob, the GOP as better stewards of public money is a myth that should have been put to bed a long time ago. They are rhetorically conservative about domestic spending, but only when out of power. In power they spend as much as they think is needed to win re-election, and have done so 5 presidents in a row and through 12 years of controlling Congress. On defense they are far more prone to spend money on anything and everything than Dems are. And worst of all they are unwilling to set tax rates where they need to be to pay for the spending they say they don’t like but vote for when they are in power.

      On gay marriage, that train has left the station. The dominoes are falling state by state, and in short order a majority of Americans will support the right of gays to marry if that is what they want. The Republican party, just once, should get itself out in front of an expansion of rights   and stop always having to be dragged kicking and screaming into the future.

      • The Bill Post Radio Show

        Again, another “anonymous” person, I don’t get this whole thing about hiding one’s name but oh well.  “the train has left the station”.  Hmm… so can I begin my new group “Necrophiliacs for Freedom”?  I am sure that train will be coming to the station at some point dontcha think?

        • 3H

          LOL.. wow, yes, if you are in favor of same-sex marriage you must be in favor of necrophilia.  The two are comparable.

          But, on a different note, yes… you can form your group.  You have that right.  Bad example Bill. 

          I’m going to form a group – we believe in cannibalizing our religious leader and eating his body and drinking his blood.  I just need a good name for it.  Hmmm…….

    • The Libertean

      Bob,

      Until people can get beyond calling the state of being born gay, “the gay lifestyle,” then I’m not sure they’ll ever get it.  I would bet that humans have been born gay, ever since humans have been born.  If one is gay, do they automatically live “the gay lifestyle”?  If they have sex with someone of the same sex, is that living “the gay lifestyle”?  What is this “gay lifestyle”?  

      I have sex with my wife.  Do I live the “straight lifestyle”?  How about if I have a lover on the side, or visit a prostitute, would that still be the “straight lifestyle”?  If a gay person is in a monogamous, long-term relationship, taking care of a family and working as a… fire fighter, are they still living “the gay lifestyle”?  

      Also, I usually prefer to leave God, god(s) or all powerful creators out of the discussion, but if you believe God creates all beings, then God creates gays and lesbians.  Being you isn’t a choice, what you do with you is.  Gays and lesbians don’t have a choice about their sexual attraction, but you have a choice in how you treat them, and others on this planet.

      The Libertean
      Liberty for All  

  • Psychobobicus

    I see the whole issue of “gay marriage” as another expansion of governmental involvement into private life (along with a few radicals who want to force their morality on everyone else and a bunch of people who think with their hearts and not logic). Statists are always trying to control more and more aspects of people’s lives, from what we can eat, how we raise children, who we can marry, what we do for a living, etc. I agree with Xander, I don’t support state meddling in marriage, straight or gay. Yes, I did vote for adding the definition of “marriage” as one man and one woman to the Constitution, because that’s my belief of what “marriage” is. However, if a bill came along removing the whole apparatus of marriage licencing, I would vote for it because I don’t believe the government should be in the business of licencing what I consider a religious institution. We already have “civil unions” that could be used to support the societal benefit of having stable, mutually supportive relationships. Those who think our society will disintegrate if we were to get rid of marriage licences would do well to keep in mind that around half of couples already don’t bother to get married right now. If we extended the benefits afforded by civil unions (and removed morally baggage laden “marriage licences”), maybe more people would enter them.
    Oh, and I’m one of those evil evangelical fundamentalist Christians. 😉 

    • 3H

      You cannot, and remain intellectually honest, complain about other people being statist while at the same time supporting a constitutional amendment to limit marriage to one man and one woman.  The government will have to enforce that amendment.   When you support an amendment that restricts the definition of marriage you are demanding that the government intrude themselves into the private lives of adults.  You are requiring the government to control “who we can marry.”   You can’t have it both ways.  You can’t condemn the statists while being one.  At least not expected to be taken seriously.

    • The Libertean

      Psychoboicus,

      You’re my kind of evangelical fundamentalist Christian.  Some of my best friends and favorite family members are Christians.

      The Libertean
      Liberty for All

  • I am completely baffled at people’s defense of the changes to the Oregon GOP Platform.

    Did Xander mean this
    “young
    Republicans tried to get language within the platform that said we 100% support
    gay marriage, do you really think it would have passed? No. And we did try. And
    it didn’t pass” as in they WANTED the platform to say “we”
    support gay marriage?  That is completely opposite of anything I’ve heard the GOP stand for.  If people are so against the government dictating social issues then they should take a look at the Libertarian party which clearly states:

    “1.3    Personal Relationships

    Sexual orientation, preference, gender, or gender identity should have no impact on the
    government’s treatment of individuals, such as in current marriage, child custody, adoption,
    immigration or military service laws. Government does not have the authority to define, license or
    restrict personal relationships. Consenting adults should be free to choose their own sexual practices
    and personal relationships.”

    or this:

    “3.5    Rights and Discrimination

    We condemn bigotry as irrational and repugnant. Government should not
    deny or abridge any individual’s rights based on sex, wealth, race,
    color, creed, age, national origin, personal habits, political
    preference or sexual orientation. Parents, or other guardians, have the
    right to raise their children according to their own standards and
    beliefs.”

    The line between Republican and Libertarian is becoming blurry, and the GOP didn’t help with their amendments.  How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.  I don’t mean that as a good thing.

    • Sorry, I should have amendment my statement. A pastor on the floor tried to strip out all definitions of marriage out of the platform arguing that it was so religious that it ought to be left out of government and politics. At no time did we attempt to put in support for gay marriage.  You can ask anyone about that who was there. But there was an amendment to no longer allow government to define marriage, as I believe the pastor’s point to be that government shouldn’t be involved, and I agreed with that. That’s different than being in support of gay marriage, which I am not, as I don’t believe government should be involved at all.

    • Dpetersusa

      Janna,

      Really?  Are you serious?  Really?  Are you suggesting that Republicans need to believe the opposite of Democrats?  Seems awfully simplistic to me…

      From the OR Democrat Party Platform:

      “We, the members of the Oregon Democratic Party, commit ourselves to seeking a better future for the present generation and for generations to come.”

      “As Oregon Democrats, we assert that the citizens of our state and our country are our government, we hold up the Bill of Rights and derived civil liberties as the enduring standard of liberty,..”

      BTW, 1.3 and 3.5 don’t look so bad to me, though I’m not sure they belong in a political platform.  At least not as written.  

      Do you think the government should define your relationships and decide who you have sex with?  Are you into bigotry and denying people their freedom?  If so, forget what it means to be a Republican – I’m not sure you know what it means to be an American.

      The Libertean
      Liberty for All

  • Paul Barnett

    I was on the preamble committee and helped to draft what became the Republican Party Platform Preamble. First, there was no move to say the “we are a Christian nation.” One person on the committee suggested it but we felt that, not only was it rather exclusivist and that nowhere in our founding documents was it to be found, but the language did not work well in the context. It never came up for a floor vote and, if memory serves me, everyone that wanted to speak on the platform from the floor had a chance.

    • The Bill Post Radio Show

      Hi Paul actually there were 4 persons, I have all of their names at the radio station if you would like them, who presented the “Christian Nation” idea and they were told very specifically that they would not be allowed to talk to the entire group.  That doesn’t seem fair now does it?

  • Dangfitz

    I think we’re seeing a re-alignment in process here. After generations of wedge issues like abortion, gayness, drugs, welfare, the military defining the two major parties, I think people are starting to see that it’s the state vs. the individual. There was a cartoon out a few months ago with the caption, “The GOP wants a government small enough to fit in your bedroom”.

    Well, I want a government too small to even find your bedroom. When I speak to young Republicans, a large percentage agree. It simply ain’t up to government to coerce, incent, or persuade you to approach God in any manner. Your relationship with God – and my relationship with God, that person over there’s relationship with God – is not the business of government. To make it so makes one no better than the Taliban – that’s what they do; they use government force to jam their vision of what God wants down everyone else’s throats. That’s not a model we want to emulate in America.

    The GOP, to survive, needs to become about limited government. Wew can teach truth through the church, we can lead by example, but as soon as you decide that force and coercion are appropriate means to impose your interpretation of Christian morality on your fellow Americans, you have no moral advantage over liberals, because this is EXACTLY what they are about: making every “good idea” (in their view) the law of the land.

    Two women or two men making a non-traditional (ahem: Abraham has 4 wives before we even get out of the Book of Genesis. Tell me again about “Traditional Marriage”)(or is it your position that Abraham has been burning in hell for the past few thousand years?) family in Portland do not violate my rights, or yours, in any way.

    • 3H

      This may play well in Oregon – which is pretty unchurched compared to the rest of the country, but there other areas – Midwest and South – that are very different in their approach to government and religion.  Just take a close look at Bachman and Perry.  Not that I don’t wish you luck.

  • As a contributor to Oregon Catalyst and an ORP delegate who was actually at Bend, I also wrote an article regarding this issue from the perspective of the majority who voted to change this plank. However, Dan Lucas, who has total and exclusive control over Catalyst content, and his wife, Rachel Lucas, Washington County GOP Chair, were on the losing end of that vote.

    So I was shocked, but not surprised, when Dan Lucas called me this afternoon to tell me he was refusing to publish my article that would give a different perspective than that of Bill Post, who wasn’t even there, but who apparently has received emails from those who were. With that call I lost all respect for the Oregon Catalyst as a credible source of information, unless you toe the line of Team Lucas.

    When Jason Williams invited me to be an Oregon Catalyst contributor, I assumed he actually tolerated journalistic freedom and the free exchange of ideas. Apparently that freedom stops at the Lucas’ doorstep. So while Dan, and presumably his wife, may have the ability to censor me from contributing to the Oregon Catalyst as I have done in the past, they grossly underestimate my ability to get my message out.

    P.S. you folks may want to screen capture this because once Dan sees it, it will disappear.

  • Anonymous

    .
    When is it the job of any political entity to support  “christian values”. Thinking of Romans 13 the job of state is only to protect us from harm, no more and no less. If one wants to know what should be the values of Christians you do much error linking a Democrat or Republican platform. True  Chestnut is not values but of Christ. I quote
     

     
    1 Corinthians 15:1-11
    The Resurrection of Christ
     1Now I would remind you, brothers,of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, 2and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you— unless you believed in vain.
     
     3For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. 8Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me. 9For I am the least of the apostles, unworthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me. 11Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.”
     
    Perhaps instead of fretting abouof “christian nation” we need to get back to proclaim Christ and him crucified for our sin and not fret about what is  or is not in the GOP platformt platforms and false ideas

  • Dan Chriestenson, Gresham

    Bill…I was at the convention and have absolutely no knowledge of a move to add the phrase ‘this is a Christian nation,’ to the preamble.  Had a motion been made (and seconded) during general session, it would have been discussed and voted on.  And there was nothing to prevent such a motion being made.  Was this language proposed in the Preamble Caucus and voted on there?  Curious about your source of information on this point. . . .thanks

  • Obetewic

    Hey Bill,
    This is why so many of us Libertarians have trouble with socialist-conservatives. Conservatives say they want to have less government in our lives, and then they pass laws that demands government to define marriage and license the practice.   Which is it, less government or regulation?  Marriage should be a private matter, just like prostitution and prohibition.

    Keep holding on to that evangelical past that never really existed….
     

  • Stephan

    The Republican Party of Oregon started moving to the left and down playing prolife since Bob Tiernan. As we recall, Bob Tiernan made a statement that ” he hoped RC would not be a” Right wing extremist religious conservative that could never win in Multnomah county”. etc. ( something to that affect). Greg Walden is pro-choice. Allen Alley is pro-choice. The folks that pull the strings in the Oregon Republcian party are prochoice.

    At Dorchester RC made a speech about becoming more liberal as Republicans.

    It seems, that the so-called core Republicans have moved socially to the left. Some in the party , like Mr. Cox, have supported gay rights at the federal level etc. He feels gays should have all the rights that the traditional family have. He feels that the Federal government cannot hold a position that is anti-gay in any way. This would suggest that Mr. Cox would seek to overturn the “Defense of marriage Act”.

    The Supreme Court over turning “Dont ask dont tell”  as Un-Constitutional, could be expanded now to traditional marriage. Obama is already making undertones that he wants to attack traditional marriage and make it Un-Constitutional to make a disparity between man and woman marriage and “same sex marriage..

    So, it seems that the current Republican regime in Oregon, is moving to adopt Barack Obama’s positions on abortion, gays in the military, same sex marriage etc. In fact, I believe that RC, AA, and GW have led the charge.

    We all recognize that gays should have “domestic partnership rights” at the federal level. We all recognize that excluding gays from the military was Un-Constitutional. Next, it is only fair that gays and lesbians and their partners receive the same military benefits as traditional spouses. We all recognize that domestic partners should have health care and retirement benefits. This is all at the federal level.

    Having said all that, the sanctity of marriage is between a man and a women. It is blessed by GOD and the Church  for the strict purpose of solidifying a bond between fertile couples, having children, perpetuating the human race and maintaining a strong family unit. As conservative Republicans we cherish life. Life !!! Moreover, the traditional family is the strength of this nation. The traditional family unit is the strength of this nation. It has been the strength of the human race since Adam and Eve.

    Gay and Lesbian couples cannot have children and perpetuate the human race, therefore, they are not the strength of this nation, and will never have parity with the traditional family. In fact, Gay and lesbian couples are defacto prochoice and not prolife. How could a man on man domestic partnership be prolife?

    At the federal level, it is pretty much Un-Constitutional to exclude gays from the military based on sexual preference. then we have to consider military benefits for domestic partnerships. Then there is the VA, and on and on and on. However, Marriage is between a man and a woman, and no legislation can overturn this biological and religious fact. Gays and lesbians will never have parity with the traditional family in the eyes of structured religion. So, attacking the” Defense of Marriage Act” is foolish.  

    The bottom line? gays and lesbians have rights under the Constitution. Thats about it. As far as adding strength to the family unit and perpetuating the species, thats where their rights end. Its a biological fact. Therefore, marriage is between a man and a women, and no legislation can change this truth.

    Prolife defines the Conservative Republican Party. Protecting the beating heart of the innocent unborn and encouraging Prolife is a core value. The sanctity of marriage is a core value.

     I , personally could care less what the current prochoice Obama appeasing Republican entrenched in Oregon are doing…They wont get any of my donations…. They have been losing in Portland for so long, they will do anything to win….

    • Anonymous

      Respectfully, here’s where you go off the rails, Stephan: at one moment you’re talking about the legal contract of marriage, then in the next you’re speaking about marriage the sacrament. They are two different things.

      I would fight at least as hard as you to keep the government from forcing churches to confer the sacrament of marriage on any couple, but I’m also fighting just as hard to keep government from forcing churches NOT to confer that sacrament. I don’t want government regulating the church’s sacraments in any way. Ruminate on that slippery slope for a while. Government licensing of the Ministry? Loyalty oaths to the State as a requirement for Confirmation? Bureaucratic review of your eligibility for the last rights? The police reviewing transcripts from the confessional?

      If a Rabbi refuses to marry Jew and Gentile, that’s the Rabbi’s call. I may, and do, think it would be idiotic, but I think it’s pretty well established that we can’t forbid everything that I think is idiotic (I offer the Tram, light rail, and government employee unions as proof of that}.

      But the legal contract ought to be available equally to all.  

      Your church shouldn’t (again, I’d fight for this) be required to recognize any marriage it wouldn’t sanctify, but – and I think you know this – what the government does isn’t in any way a sanctification. It’s a legal contract, and all consenting adults have the same right to enter into a contract.

      This is what “Freedom” and “Liberty” mean: that you have the right to live your life according to your own values, so long as you don’t interfere with others’ right to do the same. Families led by gay couples simply do not violate any of my rights, or yours.

    • Brodhead

      As far as I am concerned, the gay rights issue at the federal level is a dead issue. They should be entitled to any benefits afforded married couples when it comes to the military, military retirement, federal benefits and federal retirement and health care. Beyond that its a dead issue. 

      I support the “Defense of Marriage Act”. The states and their legislatures have the  authority on what is defined as marriage. The final authority rests with GOD and the individual. We cannot legislate morality. Down through the centuries, gay behavior has been shunned and considered dirty and immoral. And although, there exists a body of evidence that suggests that it is also a chemistry and biological make up issue, most people are repulsed by anything other than straight sexual behavior. 90% of traditional families do not want “Gay history” taught in our schools and would rather do the “Pledeg of Allegiance ” instead….

      The reality is that Oregon’s metropolitan population is socially liberal to the max with Sam Adams as it’s cheerleader. In order to win in Multnomah county, you have to be liberal and  tolerant of aberrant sexual behavior. In fact, one must be so close to the Democratic Socialist party platform as to be indistinguishable. One must give up all of their core values and be cheerleader for Sam Adams in order to win in Portland.

      This is the direction our new Chairman is taking us. It is all part of his plan to run for governor in 2014. This way, he can overcome the 1.5% of liberals that determined the 2010 election, and win the governorship in 2014.. It is social and political manipulation to win in 2014.

      Politics in Oregon has devolved into manipulating the Party platform for the strict purpose of “gaining power”. While this “Politics for dummies: strategy will work for the unaware, it will repulse the engaged true conservative faction of the party.  

      But then again, the “Oregon Entrenched Republican Guard” has abandonded the true Conservative party core. In fact, the Oregon Tea Party, unlike other state tea party groups is just an extension of the Republican entrenched. They are an auxillary unit and thats it. Just look at who runs it.  They no longer care for the prolife issue or the traditional family. They like the alternative vote in Portland. They are serenading the alternative vote in Portland. While the true conservatives get the scraps, the alternative crowd that pays zero income tax, get the full course meal deal, a movie and some Oregon wine.

      Naaaaaah, I will stick with Republican Core values and not some bastardized  quick fix the Psuedo Conservative republican entrenched  and the Oregon Auxillary Tea party have devised to win Multnomah county.  

      • Dangfitz

        But that’s the debate: what are, and what should be, “Republican Core Values”?

        Clear up this one question for me: if the GOP uses the coercive power of government to regulate non-violent, consensual behavior, then what limits would it place on government? It’s hard for me to see what parts of my life are off-limits to government if it can regulate love, marriage, and sex.

        As an aside, Newt Gingrich, Bob Barr, and Bill Clinton were the politicians who were instrumental in pushing through DOMA. I’ve lost count of how many divorces Newt has had (4?), Barr is divorced & remarried, and Clinton was having at least one affair around the time he signed DOMA (I once said to a call-in show, “I wonder what was going on _under_ the desk while he was signing it”). Clinton also has had many affairs with (and likely raped at least one) married women. IIRC, Newt always has had his next wife bedded and in the queue before divorcing the incumbent. These are the leaders in the fight for “traditional” marriage?

      • Dangfitz

        But that’s the debate: what are, and what should be, “Republican Core Values”?

        Clear up this one question for me: if the GOP uses the coercive power of government to regulate non-violent, consensual behavior, then what limits would it place on government? It’s hard for me to see what parts of my life are off-limits to government if it can regulate love, marriage, and sex.

        As an aside, Newt Gingrich, Bob Barr, and Bill Clinton were the politicians who were instrumental in pushing through DOMA. I’ve lost count of how many divorces Newt has had (4?), Barr is divorced & remarried, and Clinton was having at least one affair around the time he signed DOMA (I once said to a call-in show, “I wonder what was going on _under_ the desk while he was signing it”). Clinton also has had many affairs with (and likely raped at least one) married women. IIRC, Newt always has had his next wife bedded and in the queue before divorcing the incumbent. These are the leaders in the fight for “traditional” marriage?

      • Dangfitz

        But that’s the debate: what are, and what should be, “Republican Core Values”?

        Clear up this one question for me: if the GOP uses the coercive power of government to regulate non-violent, consensual behavior, then what limits would it place on government? It’s hard for me to see what parts of my life are off-limits to government if it can regulate love, marriage, and sex.

        As an aside, Newt Gingrich, Bob Barr, and Bill Clinton were the politicians who were instrumental in pushing through DOMA. I’ve lost count of how many divorces Newt has had (4?), Barr is divorced & remarried, and Clinton was having at least one affair around the time he signed DOMA (I once said to a call-in show, “I wonder what was going on _under_ the desk while he was signing it”). Clinton also has had many affairs with (and likely raped at least one) married women. IIRC, Newt always has had his next wife bedded and in the queue before divorcing the incumbent. These are the leaders in the fight for “traditional” marriage?

  • Stephan

    The Republican Party of Oregon started moving to the left and down playing prolife since Bob Tiernan. As we recall, Bob Tiernan made a statement that ” he hoped RC would not be a” Right wing extremist religious conservative that could never win in Multnomah county”. etc. ( something to that affect). Greg Walden is pro-choice. Allen Alley is pro-choice. The folks that pull the strings in the Oregon Republcian party are prochoice.

    At Dorchester RC made a speech about becoming more liberal as Republicans.

    It seems, that the so-called core Republicans have moved socially to the left. Some in the party , like Mr. Cox, have supported gay rights at the federal level etc. He feels gays should have all the rights that the traditional family have. He feels that the Federal government cannot hold a position that is anti-gay in any way. This would suggest that Mr. Cox would seek to overturn the “Defense of marriage Act”.

    The Supreme Court over turning “Dont ask dont tell”  as Un-Constitutional, could be expanded now to traditional marriage. Obama is already making undertones that he wants to attack traditional marriage and make it Un-Constitutional to make a disparity between man and woman marriage and “same sex marriage..

    So, it seems that the current Republican regime in Oregon, is moving to adopt Barack Obama’s positions on abortion, gays in the military, same sex marriage etc. In fact, I believe that RC, AA, and GW have led the charge.

    We all recognize that gays should have “domestic partnership rights” at the federal level. We all recognize that excluding gays from the military was Un-Constitutional. Next, it is only fair that gays and lesbians and their partners receive the same military benefits as traditional spouses. We all recognize that domestic partners should have health care and retirement benefits. This is all at the federal level.

    Having said all that, the sanctity of marriage is between a man and a women. It is blessed by GOD and the Church  for the strict purpose of solidifying a bond between fertile couples, having children, perpetuating the human race and maintaining a strong family unit. As conservative Republicans we cherish life. Life !!! Moreover, the traditional family is the strength of this nation. The traditional family unit is the strength of this nation. It has been the strength of the human race since Adam and Eve.

    Gay and Lesbian couples cannot have children and perpetuate the human race, therefore, they are not the strength of this nation, and will never have parity with the traditional family. In fact, Gay and lesbian couples are defacto prochoice and not prolife. How could a man on man domestic partnership be prolife?

    At the federal level, it is pretty much Un-Constitutional to exclude gays from the military based on sexual preference. then we have to consider military benefits for domestic partnerships. Then there is the VA, and on and on and on. However, Marriage is between a man and a woman, and no legislation can overturn this biological and religious fact. Gays and lesbians will never have parity with the traditional family in the eyes of structured religion. So, attacking the” Defense of Marriage Act” is foolish.  

    The bottom line? gays and lesbians have rights under the Constitution. Thats about it. As far as adding strength to the family unit and perpetuating the species, thats where their rights end. Its a biological fact. Therefore, marriage is between a man and a women, and no legislation can change this truth.

    Prolife defines the Conservative Republican Party. Protecting the beating heart of the innocent unborn and encouraging Prolife is a core value. The sanctity of marriage is a core value.

     I , personally could care less what the current prochoice Obama appeasing Republican entrenched in Oregon are doing…They wont get any of my donations…. They have been losing in Portland for so long, they will do anything to win….

  • Stephan

    The Republican Party of Oregon started moving to the left and down playing prolife since Bob Tiernan. As we recall, Bob Tiernan made a statement that ” he hoped RC would not be a” Right wing extremist religious conservative that could never win in Multnomah county”. etc. ( something to that affect). Greg Walden is pro-choice. Allen Alley is pro-choice. The folks that pull the strings in the Oregon Republcian party are prochoice.

    At Dorchester RC made a speech about becoming more liberal as Republicans.

    It seems, that the so-called core Republicans have moved socially to the left. Some in the party , like Mr. Cox, have supported gay rights at the federal level etc. He feels gays should have all the rights that the traditional family have. He feels that the Federal government cannot hold a position that is anti-gay in any way. This would suggest that Mr. Cox would seek to overturn the “Defense of marriage Act”.

    The Supreme Court over turning “Dont ask dont tell”  as Un-Constitutional, could be expanded now to traditional marriage. Obama is already making undertones that he wants to attack traditional marriage and make it Un-Constitutional to make a disparity between man and woman marriage and “same sex marriage..

    So, it seems that the current Republican regime in Oregon, is moving to adopt Barack Obama’s positions on abortion, gays in the military, same sex marriage etc. In fact, I believe that RC, AA, and GW have led the charge.

    We all recognize that gays should have “domestic partnership rights” at the federal level. We all recognize that excluding gays from the military was Un-Constitutional. Next, it is only fair that gays and lesbians and their partners receive the same military benefits as traditional spouses. We all recognize that domestic partners should have health care and retirement benefits. This is all at the federal level.

    Having said all that, the sanctity of marriage is between a man and a women. It is blessed by GOD and the Church  for the strict purpose of solidifying a bond between fertile couples, having children, perpetuating the human race and maintaining a strong family unit. As conservative Republicans we cherish life. Life !!! Moreover, the traditional family is the strength of this nation. The traditional family unit is the strength of this nation. It has been the strength of the human race since Adam and Eve.

    Gay and Lesbian couples cannot have children and perpetuate the human race, therefore, they are not the strength of this nation, and will never have parity with the traditional family. In fact, Gay and lesbian couples are defacto prochoice and not prolife. How could a man on man domestic partnership be prolife?

    At the federal level, it is pretty much Un-Constitutional to exclude gays from the military based on sexual preference. then we have to consider military benefits for domestic partnerships. Then there is the VA, and on and on and on. However, Marriage is between a man and a woman, and no legislation can overturn this biological and religious fact. Gays and lesbians will never have parity with the traditional family in the eyes of structured religion. So, attacking the” Defense of Marriage Act” is foolish.  

    The bottom line? gays and lesbians have rights under the Constitution. Thats about it. As far as adding strength to the family unit and perpetuating the species, thats where their rights end. Its a biological fact. Therefore, marriage is between a man and a women, and no legislation can change this truth.

    Prolife defines the Conservative Republican Party. Protecting the beating heart of the innocent unborn and encouraging Prolife is a core value. The sanctity of marriage is a core value.

     I , personally could care less what the current prochoice Obama appeasing Republican entrenched in Oregon are doing…They wont get any of my donations…. They have been losing in Portland for so long, they will do anything to win….

  • Brodhead

    But then again, since my family has served in uniform since the conquest of New Amsterdam, and our family served at valley Forge, I have traditional view of things.

    Portland is a dense population of city dwellers that live off of a service based economy. Everyone knows that dense populations are a haven from Democratic Socialists.

    Rural folks are more conservative because they have to be. Rural folks are prolife because they need family members to “Turn the fields,” “Pick the Corn,” “Milk the cows” and Churn the butter!” Every day life was a struggle. In Portland , all you have to do is work at a beer Hall, and rent an apartment. The just go to Trader Joes for some frozen food.  

    The last 2500 rag tag troops at Valley forge were probably prolife farmers, as was my family. They believed in GOD, and carried the Bible. The shunned homosexuals because who would pick the corn, and no one wants man on man sex when one is freezing, starving, and suffering from Disentery. So, really at that time, George Washington and the ” Founding fathers” really did not have time to deal with gay issues. Now of course while conservatives are tilling the ground and paying the taxes, the alternative crowd wants everyone to be aware that they like to engage in sodomy. In fact, Sam Adams is the poster boy for sodomy and the present king of Portland.

    personally, I will follow tradition….
      

    • valley person

      When was the last time rural folks in Oregon picked the corn, milked the cows and churned the butter? 80% probably don’t even have a garden. On the other hand, Portland socialists have chickens, goats, and organic produce gardens. Who would have thought?   

      • 3H

        Don’t forget bees.  Bee-keeping is getting big.

  • For those interested in reading what Dan Lucas did not want you to see here on Oregon Catalyst, you will have to go to a conservative site unafraid of controversy.

    http://victoriataftkpam.blogspot.com/2011/09/bruce-mccain-oregon-republicans-change.html

    • brodhead

      I read your post on Victoria Taft. I dont like Victoria Taft and found her rude and self abosrbed, so I never go there, but I read your comments…Thanks for enlightening me…

      I personally feel homosexuality is abnormal, immoral and aberrent behavior. However, I do feel that tax paying citizens have rights under the Constitution. This could evolve into domestic partnership rights at the federal level. As of the 20th of september 2011, Gays can serve openly in the military. This reality will lead to domestic partners suing for VA and military compensation should a loved one die in battle etc. etc. Once this court case is won, the gay movement will  move onto federal workers rights etc. Obama is already attacking traditional marriage. I think  the ORP did well to limit the rhetoric to the first paragraph while leaving the rest out.
      As it is, gays and lesbians have domestic partnership rights, as well as adoption rights.Attempting to overturn that would be stoneage. Many of the younger generation see no problem with alternative lifestyles and sodomy, so I guess they have a say.
      Like I stated previously, the next battlefield will be military and federal domestic partnership rights, then an attack on the definition of traditional marriage. I think retreating any further then what is stated in the ORP platform would be inappropriate.
       As it is supporting prochoice candidates has strained the roots of the party. But then again, the so-called psuedo conservative republican entrenched dictate everything and then sell it to the constituents so WTF?
      I think folks would be more accepting of this moderate adoption if republicans did what they said they would do. But as it is now, there is very little difference between both parties when it relates to spending. Both parties are bankrupting the American dream. Debating the gay friendliness of the ORP while we are bleeding $1.7 trillion a year in deficit spending seems to be non value adding.. 

    • The Bill Post Radio Show

      Thanks for posting that Bruce!  Great response!  In fact I want to thank everyone for the things you have written in response to this article it has been very fun to read and I appreciate each and every one, I really do!  I have never been one to get angry or upset about something I am passionate about and I would expect the same of anyone else.  You have all written very thoughtful responses and you should be applauded.  I have learned much about the state of the State of Oregon.  I have lived here all of my life but you learn something new everyday. 
      Our show’s ratings have never been higher and we have made inroads into the territory that was once ruled by one talker.  Now there is more choice and isn’t that the great thing about America!  We love tearing listeners away from the PDX stations and increasing our market share which is what Capitalism is all about!  According to the latest Arbitron Ratings, in the coveted 25-59 demographic, both KXL and KPAM have been slowly sliding into the ocean while a station that isn’t even picked up very well in most of Metro Portland is rising.  I have no idea why except that the good folks who listen to us must be more plentiful than I had imagined.  Awesome.  Thanks all.

  • Rupert in Springfield

    I have absolutely no idea why marriage, gay or not, is even an issue. To me, a Republican is for limited government. That stance should include not using the tax code for social architecture. I am against the government recognizing marriage in any way shape or form. You want to get married? I see no reason for government sanction, license or imprimatur for the fact that you and someone else decided to “get it on regular”.

    I think Republicans should support getting government out of marriage, not restricting it to one group. A true conservative would be against tax breaks for marriage of any kind.

    • valley person

      “To me, a Republican is for limited government. ”

      That is a quaint notion. Of course you have to discount the actual governing history of the Republican Party and their constituents demands to maintain it. 

      • Rupert in Springfield

        Actually its easier just to discount your dopey comments. Only an idiot would try and tell another person what that persons opinion was. With comments such as this, trying to tell me my own opinion, you confirm your complete and utter idiocy.

        I mean seriously – you really are trying to tell me what I believe? What a boob!

        • 3H

          Only a boob would think that VP is trying to tell you what to think. He’s making a criticism of your comment that a Repbulican is for small government.  You said “Republican”, not “I”, or even – “If I had my way the Republican Party would be for small government  in deed – just not words.”

        • valley person

          I told you your own opinion? I thought I was remarking on the quaintness of your opinion about what you think a Republican is for, and explaining why this is my opinion. 

          Republicans voted in Medicare Part D and still defend that vote today. Republicans are for a military larger than the next 20 nations combined. Republicans are for warrentless wiretaps. Republicans are for allowing,even encouraging government employees and contractors to torture suspects. Republicans are for maintaining the largest per capita prison population on earth. Republicans are for the government executing people, knowing some of those people are probably innocent. Republicans are for (or were until recently) outlawing certain acts of sex between consensual adults. Republicans are for using the institutions of government to enforce their version of religion on others. Republicans are against the right of a woman to end a pregnancy caused by rape or incest. Republicans living in wealth suburbs are for preventing private landowners from building apartments for moderate income people.

          But you think they are for limited government? 

    • Ardbeg

      Amen!  I mean your absolutely right.  Government has no business in the marriage business.  Why did the gov get intO it anyway?  Rhetorical question. If the GOP would leave social issues alone they would have a better chance of getting elected!

  • RJBybee1221US

    All this boiled down shows me that the world is changing for the better.  Slowly, but still changing.  It does my heart good to see Republicans softening their hearts towards fellow Oregonians and Americans.  The ideas of the Bill Posts, Lars Larsons, etc are slowing becoming so fringe that most people won’t own them for themselves–not publicily anyways.  There are always going to be bigotted candidates that win elections.  As they say all politics is local.  One thing for sure, there is no doubt that we will see marriage equality in Oregon in the very near future.  That is something the Bill Posts, Victoria Tafts and Lars Larsons need to come to grips with.

  • Anonymous

    I have talked with several PCP that attended the ORP in Bend. The consensus was to keep the platform simple and straight forward. Marriage is between a Man and a Woman. 

    • And the final language of plank 6.3 reads:

      “Marriage is between one man and one woman.”

      But even that simple, unambiguous statement reflecting the Oregon constitution after M36 wasn’t good enough for the vocal minority who lost that vote.

    • 3H

      I’ve been curious about this:  what about transsexual people who go through an operation?  If a man becomes a woman, and then wants to marry a man, that is OK, yes?   One man + one woman.  

      If it’s not OK, then I think the Republican platform needs to reflect this issue that can potentially destroy the foundation of Western Civilization and demand that all applicants for a marriage license have their DNA tested.

  • brodhead

    America is based on Christian values.

    In 1664, my Great Grand Father Captain Daniel Brodhead from West Riding, Yorkshire England disembarked from Man-O-Wars along with 500 British troops onto what is now called Manhattan. Just a few blocks from where the twin towers used to set.

    As the overall commander of the 500 British troops, he forced Governor Stuyvesant to accept surrender terms and give power to England. Hence, New Amsterdam was taken and renamed New York (after the Duke of York.) As we recall, the British were Protestants.

    At Valley Forge 113 years later, My family members along with George Washington paryed to GOD, and prayed for this nation, while starving, freezing, and suffering from disease. They did not pray to ALA, Booda, a rat or an Elephant, they prayed to GOD. They adopted Christian beliefs. They carried the Bible, not The Chronicles of Joseph Smith or the Quran.. Then after 8 years of war, they created the greatest nation on earth, and based it on Christian values.

    Homosexuality is not a Christian value. Abortion is not a Christian value.

    The Constitution guarantees the rights of the individual. 

    Logically then, given that gays have a right to serve in the military, they should have domestic partnership rights and be able to confer these rights to their partners.

    But , since our nation is based on Christian values, this is where the argument begins:

    So, since homosexuality is not a Christian belief, and homosexuality does not strengthen the family or perpetuate the species and the continued growth and strength of America, should the gay life style be subsidized by the government. Meaning, should the military recognize domestic partnership rights??????   Should the government provide military retirement benefits to the partners of gay military members?

    This is the next argument that Obama will impose on the American people. As it is, the government under Obama is implementing wholesale support of the Gay community by insisting that we teach Gay acceptance in our schools, Gay history, Gay this , Gay that, Gay marriage, Gay everything. In the eys of Obama, the Gay life style has parity with the traditional family. Obama also supports abortion and even went to Notredame to tell our children to have abortions. Next he apologized to Illegals on the Mexican border for Republicans. If one thinks about it, Obama stands more for absolutely stopping growth in America with his strong support of abortion and the gay lifestyle.  In fact, given his demonstrated behavior, he feels that illegals have more right to this country than our innocent unborn.

    I think the Obama is anti American. He even has disdain for our traditions and how we honor the fallen!!!! 

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fk97Ml53Yfg

    • valley person

      Over 50% of Americans now favor granting the right of gay partners to marry each other. Over 2/3 of Americans support the right of gays to serve in the military. 50%-80% (depending on how the question is asked) of Americans support abortion being legal in all or most cases.

      So if Obama is anti-American for sharing these views, then so are most Americans. Where does that leave yourself?

      • Brodhead

        I figure gays have a right under the Constitution to serve in the military.

        I believe abortion is a “States Rights Issue”! Its not a question of legality. Its a question of moral character. It is right to support the innocent unborn and cherish life..

        I believe that the Federal government has become an annoyance and a detriment to a thriving economy. 

        Oh and you left out Obama apologizing on the Mexican border or how his wife smirked at the 911 ceremony. She is not an appropriate First lady. She seems to be more of a nag than anything else.

      • Brodhead

        80% of “same sex couples” in Portland are between females. While I was in the military, I served with several females that were lesbians and served in a professional manner. Lesbians serving openly in the military will not have an adverse impact on the overall mission.As far as raising children, I dont think a same sex female household has an adverse impact on the personal growth of children.  I think having a male role model is better but anyways.

        Now we have to deal with lesbiansrights  in the military that have children and a domestic partner. They should have all rights in the military as straight couples etc…

        • valley person

          My point was that you say Obama is un-American for holding views that most Americans agree with. You are entitled to any opinion you like, just don’t accuse others of being un-American because they don’t share your opinions.

  • David Darnell

      Very few of the 209+/- delegates in attendance had any intention of diluting the conservative stance for the purposes of inclusion.  Individuality is a core principle in conservatism and, unlike the left, we rarely walk in lockstep.  We are a party of individuals, some believe, some do not.  I’m sure in your comparison of the 2010 and 2011 platforms, you were able to see that we made significant improvements in both wording and substance, regardless of the opinions of others.
       Bill, we have plenty of room in Marion County Republicans for PCPs and other’s who wish to further the conservative cause.

  • Brodhead
  • Brodhead
  • Brodhead
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