Ryan wins VP debate

by NW Spotlight

Ryan on Obama: speeches but not leadership

The Daily Caller is reporting that polls and media talking heads say that Paul Ryan won the VP debate, but also give credit to VP Joe Biden for doing enough to revive “Democratic morale following the disastrous Oct. 3 presidential debate.”

A CNBC poll said that 56% thought Ryan won, and 36% thought Biden won.

A CNN poll had 48% thinking that Paul Ryan won, and 44% thinking Joe Biden won.

More CNN poll results:

  • 28% said the VP debate made them more likely to vote for Romney and 21% said it made them  more likely to vote for Obama
  • Biden overcame low expectations: 55% said Biden did better than expected, and 51% said Ryan did better than expected.
  • 50% said Ryan expressed himself better to 41% for Biden
  • 53% said Ryan was more likable to 43% for Biden
  • Ryan had a slight advantage on being more in touch with the problems of average Americans

The Daily Caller noted that “even Democrats complimented Ryan’s performance, saying he was presidential, informed, reassuring and likable.”

Many were critical of Biden’s demeanor, including CNN’s Gloria Borger, who said that Biden’s demeanor was “condescending.”

In the debate, Ryan was critical of Obama’s failure of leadership on budgets and deficits, saying “That’s what we get in this administration – speeches. But we’re not getting leadership.”

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Posted by at 05:00 | Posted in 2012 Presidential Election, Paul Ryan | 281 Comments |Email This Post Email This Post |Print This Post Print This Post
  • Rupert in Springfield

    Bidens weakness is his strength – His sometimes racist, always hilarious gaffs give one an impression that regardless of how you may feel about what he is saying, you are hearing the real man, what he really thinks. Biden certainly did this last night, he seemed earnest as well as prepared. Sure he made some wacko mistakes, insisting the administration had no knowledge of requests for security prior to the Libyan terror attacks, as well as the bizzarro world assertion that we got involved in Libya and not Syria because Syria is five times the geographic area of Libya. However in the end Biden seemed passionate and genuine which is really all he had to do.

    Ryan seemed far more capable than I think most expected and managed to pull off all he needed to do – illustrate his often astonishing ability to rattle off budget numbers and policy issue like a human computer without sounding shrill. Ryan accomplished this in spades. Could he have been more aggressive? Of course, but to do so would have risked sounding shrill and annoying giving Biden the opening to smack him down as a young punk.

    All in all a good debate, and surprisingly aggressive questioning from the moderator right out of the gate. This was refreshing after four years of the media lobbing in soft slow pitches to the administration.

    • valley person

      News reports today are that Biden was correct. At least at the higher levels of the Obama admin, they had not gotten the requests for increased security in Benghazi. And, he was correct that the House Republicans cut security funding for our Embassies and Consulates.

      We got “involved” in Lybia because we could accomplish an objective at low cost. Syria is a powder keg in the process of going off. What is the objective? How could we accomplish it? Who ends up as the government once Assad is deposed?

      If Romney is elected, you think he is sending troops to Syria?

      • Rupert in Springfield

        >At least at the higher levels of the Obama admin, they had not gotten the requests for increased security in Benghazi.

        I think that is the story today. I tend to believe it, BO has a lot on his plate, Beyonce, JZ, shindigs in Vegas.

        Imagine how much you would be railing against BO if he was a Republican? It’s unreal the contortions you have to go through when you can never admit you guy makes mistakes.

        • valley person

          Your snarkiness aside, yes, a president has a lot on his or her plate. Every request for every additional resource does not make it to the big desk.

          I would be railing against BO if he were a Republican on a policy basis, not on whether a single consulate was left undefended somewhere. In the grand scheme of things, I’m a lot more concerned about war and peace than about whether a specific consulate got 6 more marines or not.

          What your side is attempting, feebly I might add, is to take a tragic incident and inflate it into a critique of Obama’s entire Mideast policy. That seems a bit ridiculous Argue about the policy on its merits, not on whether some group was able to kill a few Americans at a Consulate in a chaotic and barely governed city.

          And the Romney-Ryan critique, that increasing defense spending and doing whatever Bibi wants will result in the Middle east settling down, is about as naive as I have ever heard. Invading countries and toppling dictators has not settled anything down, so why would increasing defense spending on useless military hardware designed for wars we will never fight?

          Don’t bother answering. It was a rhetorical question.

          • 3H

            Lets not forget that the job of the marines is to protect the information at the consulate/embassy, not the personnel. Not that facts matter, so I realize I’m spitting into the wind.

          • Rupert in Springfield

            And lets not forget that even that job, protecting information at the consulate, was not accomplished. Not that facts matter, because you guys can never admit when you guy screws up, which he did royally on this one.

          • 3H

            LOL.. but we have admitted when Obama screwed up. This will come as news to you Rupert, but just because you think something is a screw-up doesn’t make it a screw-up or that I necessarily agree with your assessment. Shocking I know. What you can’t admit is that Liberals aren’t the monolithic single-focused and single-minded group that you make them out to be. The fact that you were surprised by the reaction of some of your liberal friends says it all.

          • Rupert in Springfield

            >LOL.. but we have admitted when Obama screwed up.

            Can you list a time when you admitted Obama screwed up on this blog? It has to be something significant, not he got a date wrong. It also has to be something that is a screw up in practice, not failure to meet with liberal ends, such as calling not getting single payer a screw up. Can you name one time? Because I sure can’t remember one.

            > The fact that you were surprised by the reaction of some of your liberal friends says it all.

            Liberals do sometimes surprise me, but that’s only because I can admit when I am wrong, such as in my surprise they were startled by Bidens attitude.

            However, you are someone I can predict with fairly reasonable accuracy.

            For example – Obama clearly screwed up with Libya because even by your own standard of marines only at the embassy clearly even just protecting information there was not done. Major screw up by the administration. Will you be able to say so forthrightly? Not on your life.

            How about just admitting BO majorly screwed up with yammering on about the dopey video as the cause of the Libya events? Clearly that was shooting from the hip. Will you admit now Obama screwed up there?

            Nope, not on your life.

          • 3H

            I have… and feel free to look for it. This will also come as a shock to you, but I really don’t feel the need to prove anything to you since your mind is blinkered and closed to anything that seriously challenges your preconceived notions of, well, just about everything.

            Actually your surprise is a symptom of your lack of critical thinking. You were surprised because it went against your simplistic views of liberals. But not to worry, you will not learn from that lesson, and you will resume your pathologic inability to learn from past experiences.

            But, have a nice day. 🙂

          • Judahlevi

            Give it a rest. Liberals have just as “simplistic” views of conservatives, yourself included, as you say conservatives do.

            Insulting Rupert, who comes here to converse with fellow “conservatives”, will definitely get you kicked off the site.

            Your are proving my case.

          • 3H

            BTW – I’m not saying that conservatives have simplistic views, I’m saying that Rupert does. He just happens to be a conservative. As am I.

            But, in the end, it is just your opinion. My opinion is different. Puts us back to square one, doesn’t it?

          • Rupert in Springfield

            My views are simplistic because I tend to be accurate in predicting liberal behavior, such as predicting you could not defend your assertion above?

            Are you quite sure you understand what the word “simplistic” means? Because I am not sure you do.

          • 3H

            Oh, trust me, after reading so many of your posts, I do know the meaning of simplistic . Here is more evidence of your flawed thinking – you simply do not understand the difference between “will not” and “can not”.

            However, what you are good at is the BIg Lie. Make egregiously wrong claims often enough, and someone other than yourself will start to believe them. It works for the current Republican candidates, why shouldn’t it work for you?

          • valley person

            Judah, why don’t you guys set up a little group email coffee klatch and have your little conversation where no one with any sense can barge in and straighten you out? You would be so happy flattening the earth and throwing darts at Obama in a private party no?

          • Rupert in Springfield

            Actually I don’t come here solely to converse with “fellow conservatives”. Sure I am interested in sharing ideas, but the major thrust of why I engaged with the frothing mouthed is for one reason – to illustrate effective debate tactics with liberals through predictive behavior of their actions.

            One of the most effective debate tactics there is is to put the liberal in a corner, because you know he cannot and will not admit when his leaders are wrong. This is one trait I have observed that is about as reliable as anything, we have several displays of it here, such as 3H’s inability to defend his assertion, or Deans inability to admit BO was wrong on Libya in a forthright manner.

            Use of this tactic will result in the usual name calling etc. because it obviously is incredibly frustrating to the liberal to have the intellectual dishonesty on such full display. While conservatives can admit all day long when their leaders were wrong, for example Bush2 on spending and Iraq, the liberal will never be able to admit even the smallest fallibility in his leaders.

            No one likes to have this realization of themselves, that they are blind followers. Nor do they like it on full display that they are robotic in that their behavior can be predicted before they even have thought to engage in it.

            I have done this exact same line of argument time and time again. Dean and 3H can never admit fallibility in their leaders. Dean only once has been able to admit he was wrong on n point, his assertion that illegal aliens have no standing in the Supreme Court. That’s it.

            So, going into an argument I know this. That is an incredible weapon in any debate. You can make someone do just about anything when you know they can never admit when they are wrong, and certainly can never admit when their leaders are wrong.

            That’s what I am illustrating here. The insults are a natural consequence of it. Such insults are the sending up of a flare to indicate loss of an argument because you got backed into a corner you should have seen coming. If you can reduce someone to nothing but insults you have not only won the argument, but you have shown others how to do so as well.

          • valley person

            Rupert, has anyone close to you ever suggested, politely, maybe just a subtle hint at least, that you are a borderline megalomaniac, and you could be on either side of the border?

            I like arguing with you because, not in spite of your utter self absorption. In short, you crack me up. You file assertion after assertion, with no basis in reality, and then you rarely forget to congratulate yourself for a job well done. You do this on every subject of the day. You relate personal anecdotes as amounting to acquired expertise. I have conservative friends and neighbors who can construct a coherent, reality based, even heartfelt defense of modern conservatism. You can’t. At least I’ve never seen you do so. So to pat yourself on the back for your awesome ability to “corner” liberals…I mean.. oy gevalt.

            (Once in a great while you do hit on something that is more or less in line with objective reality, but I attribute that to the broken clock syndrome).

            You, of all people, should never ever criticize others for being “blind followers.” After all, you are the one who time after time defends GWB as a successful, if not brilliant president, inflating his meager accomplishments and ignoring the disaster he bequeathed to this nation. You would never see me or hardly any liberal doing that with Jimmy Carter.Mr Carter, a great ex-president, was a disaster in the oval office.

            Nor should you ever criticize your opponents for resorting to insults. You do it with such regularity, and such little skill, that you apparently do not even take notice.

            What you are illustrating here time and again is your own intellectual limits. Nothing more. Now you can file this away as an insult if you like. But its an honest assessment of your on line debating skill and effectiveness. If I have hurt your feelings, which I doubt, I apologize. This is news your friends and family should deliver to you. Not me.

          • Rupert in Springfield

            But you have proven yourself to me. You have done exactly as I predicted – you cannot defend your assertion. Why? Because it is a false assertion, you cannot and have not been critical of your leaders in any meaningful manner.

            Thank you for fulfilling the predicted behavior. You always do.

          • 3H

            LOL.. just as your response was so tiresomely predictable.

            It’s not that I can’t, it’s that I choose to not sift through old posts. Why should I do your work for you? All it proves, is that I don’t care if you believe me or not. However, feel free to go through all the old posts over the last year or two, and summarize each one and get back to me.

            Just a thought: if my refusal to go back and find the posts for you constitutes “evidence” that they don’t exist, you are even more intellectually lazy than I had previously believed.

          • valley person

            Rupert, with all due respect, the reason your predictions always turn out to be accurate is because you begin with a delusional proposition and delude yourself into thinking it has been upheld.

            A good therapist could help you here.

          • Damascusdean

            Not sending a few extra marines to a single consulate, if that is what you think Obama failed to do, is a pretty minor screw up in the context of the presidency. Not like starting a war with the wrong country, breaking the economy, or failing to rescue US citizens stranded in a hurricane.

          • Judahlevi

            You realize this is a site for “conservatives to gather” and not necessarily for liberal talking points from the Huffington Post or Daily Kos?

            We get plenty of that on other sites.

          • Damascusdean

            OMG!! I had no idea! I humbly apologize for straightening Rupert out.

          • ardbeg

            Judah-You do realize this site is for “conservatives to gather” We don’t need kool-aide drinkers like you. You seem to act as if you are the judge and jury of who is worthy to be on this site. Who died and made you king?

          • Judahlevi

            I have been patient with you, but you really need to start spelling “kool-aide” correctly. It is Kool-Aid, without the “e.”

          • ardbeg

            My Dan Quayle impression.

          • Judahlevi

            As a former Marine, I can assure you your posted “facts” are not facts. Embassy Marines protect property (primary) and personnel (secondary), but both are the Marine’s responsibilities.

            One more example (out of many) of a liberal’s “facts” turning into spit in the wind.

          • 3H

            But, as you said yourself Judah, there are no such things as facts in political opinions.

          • Rupert in Springfield

            >Every request for every additional resource does not make it to the big desk.

            In fact I would bet almost none of them do of this nature. I doubt very highly that requests for additional security routinely are run by the president. That’s why Bidens excuse for being wrong on this is so weak.

            The fact is requests were made for additional security. Biden was unaware of that, and now is trying to cover his tracks by claiming he was speaking about personally knowing about the requests, which is asinine.

            He made a mistake, one you would be pillorying him for if he was a Republican. Call it good and move on.

  • bill sizemore

    Good analysis, Rupert. Biden’s behavior was appallingly childish and classless. If his goal was to interrupt his opponent as many times as possible, he succeeded. He also did a good job of whining about not getting to talk enough while he was talking more than Ryan. Ryan said some good things that Biden talked over, which was a likely strategy. But Ryan got too far into the weeds at times and failed to make the big picture points that people could take home with them.
    All in all, the only thing Ryan needed to do was not lose and not give the appearance that he could not fill the suit if he had to step into the presidency. He easily succeeded on both counts. I found him quite impressive in his grasp of foreign policy, which for a budget guy was a surprise. He obviously paid attention to other matters while serving on budget committees – and paid attention during debate prep.

    • Rupert in Springfield

      >Biden’s behavior was appallingly childish and classless.

      It was, but lets get real, politics is a full contact sport. If there is anyone out there who knows the slightest thing about Biden and was surprised, well then Id be surprised.

      I’m sure Ryan knew this going in. Really the only question would be if Bidens bluster would rattle Ryan into sounding shrill and annoying. That didn’t happen.

      So what you got was a performance that pleased both sides. Biden was passionate and persuasive in the way most expected him to be. Ryan didn’t lose it, which is what those on his side hoped for, but were worried about since there is not much of a debate record for Ryan to base expectations on.

      The thing I have been surprised about is my liberal friends all seem far more annoyed by Bidens smiling with the intergalactic uber teeth whitening job than I would have thought.

      I think the gaff of Biden saying they didn’t know about requests for security in Libya will be a bigger issue in days to come. It certainly resuscitates the issue for the next presidential debate.

    • valley person

      Ryan is playing hide the ball and Biden wouldn’t let him. When Ryan says his own family depended on government handouts, so therefore he would protect them, and Biden looked in the camera, said what Ryan’s actual proposal was, and then asked “who do you trust” on this issue, he cut straight to the bone on the differences between the parties.

      Ryan pretends to care about the deficit yet offers tax cuts and military spending increases. He pretends to care about Medicare by proposes to turn it into a voucher program. He pretends to care about Social Security but then says we should privatize it.

      Yes, Biden was rude in response. Good for him. Its about time someone called BS on Republicans claiming up is down and black is white with all sincerety.

      • Rupert in Springfield

        >Ryan pretends to care about the deficit yet offers tax cuts

        Same mistake over and over, tax cuts only increase the deficit if they are followed by falling revenue. Since tax cuts tend to increase growth, revenue often rises after them. You make the same mistake over and over and over, yet because you can never admit you are wrong, you will never learn.

        • Damascusdean

          Same mistake over and over. Tax cuts = less revenue and larger deficits. See American history.

          • Judahlevi

            You are wrong. Tax cuts can equal higher tax revenues. Deficits need to be reduced by reduced governmental spending, not more tax revenue.

          • valley person

            Buy a calculator and get back to me.

      • Judahlevi

        Valley, it is good that someone is “rude” to Republicans? And your views are not “black and white?”

        What a thoughtful analysis.

        • valley person

          It was a debate. Biden debated. And part of his debate strategy was to demonstrate why Ryan was full of baloney.

          Ryan was there representing the Republican view of the world, and that view needs a rude response in order to awaken the American people so they do not vote against their own interest.

          On the other hand, if their interest is putting the people in charge who screwed things up so they can do so again, then so be it.

  • valley person

    There was no CNBC poll. It was nothing more than a web preference gimmick.

    There were 2 scientific polls of the debate. In the CBS poll Biden won handily by over 20 points among undecided voters. In the CNN poll Ryan won by 4 points.

    Basically, by guffawing at Ryans non answers, Biden exposed Ryan-Romney as the empty suits that they are. We will see what happens next.

    • Judahlevi

      Talk about “empty suits.” Insults for arguments? What are you – and why are you here?

      • valley person

        A well timed and directed and not overly crass insult is a very effective argument against an indefensible proposition. Romney and Ryans positions on every issue of the day look like Swiss cheese. Biden shined a bright light to show the holes. It was political theater and he was darn good at it. He basically gave Ryan a public wedgie.

        And that is what Biden and Obama have to continue doing. They can’t let these guys sneak into office on a bad economy that their own party created in the first place.

  • I’m finally done with watching the debate. It was
    very disappointing. Biden couldn’t shut up and Raddatz couldn’t keep
    order. Ryan should have demanded the floor when he had it (“I’m paying for this microphone”—remember that?) I’m no wiser now than I was when I tuned in, except for my
    dislike of Biden.

  • Judahlevi

    Biden revealed himself as the typical condescending liberal and spoiled child that must always have the last word. This is something I have noticed with liberals whenever you have a ‘discussion’ with them. Ryan revealed himself as the thoughtful and considerate person he is. To most Americans, Ryan won the debate hands down.

    Many Americans do like or appreciate the liberal attitude of arrogance and condescension. Both Obama and Biden exude these attributes, as do most liberals. They seem to think, in their own minds, they are better than anyone who disagrees with them. They aren’t.

    Biden is the rude, smirking, laughing, spitting, and loud liberal who tries to dominate the discussion by his outrageous behavior instead of calmly discussing rational ideas. He lost the debate because of it.

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